Outside to outside then sub. the diameter of the bullet. Why?
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I just wanted to make sure you were subtracting the bullet diam.
No offence taken, I feel that my job as a moderator is to keep misinformation down as much as I can, and that is why I try to jump onto things like I do. I am no expert at all, I am a guy who has a hobby of shooting, and my interest is in Savage and custom action bolt guns. I try to steer people with the knowledg I have gained from experince. I wish I could shoot more, as I feel the more you shoot the more you know.
I blame big box store for trashing America, everything is about money, and maximizing profites, and doing what ever it takes to get there. I will not say that ever company is like this, but they have to compete with ones that are, and either they follow suite or they will be buried. What in turn this does is limit the amount of money they can spend on expertice, and exprerince. With that said, many times you get what you pay for. At one time you use to be able to go into a Radio Shack and know that the person your talking to knew eletronics, and the little piece that go into them, such as resister, compasitors, etc, Now you go into a Radio Shack, and the person that is helping you has no idea, you said I need a resister, and he will look at you and say "whats a resister?" basicly the firearms industy has done the same thing. I highly admire Fred Sinclair, this was a man who truly understood what is needed, he paid for his employees to go out and compete, and he challanged them to learn about the products, and gave them opertunity to do so. This is what ALL companies need to do.
As far as the company reps, dont get me wrong these guys are not total idiots, many of them are experinced and vast in knowledge, the problem lies whith there being so many diferent fields of firearms it is hard to be an expert of them all, which is what is expected with someone answering the phone. I feel that the reps should be broken down into their felds of expertice, such as hunting, or target shooting, then into pistol, rilfe, shotgun, ETC. For example I know nothing at all about lever action guns, I have never even owned one. I have always been told that you can not load pointed bullets in a lever action becaose under recoil, the bullets in the magazine will hit the primer and cause a chain reaction of rounds going off. Now I think this sounds obserb, but I am going to take it as gospile, because one I dont want to be around to test this, in the case of catastropic failure, and 2 I have no interest in know if it is right or wrong. Now if you put me in a call center and someone would ask me about it, I would tell them I dont know, but it could be that they have told a few people this, and they got there butt chewed off, as they are supose to be an expert, so they would take the easy round out and just say yes this is a fact, even thought they have no experince with it. Last thing to remember is politics is everywere, ther person may be there because they are related to someone, or other reasons.
With that said most call center people are sales people, and there goal is to get you to buy their product, so this may influance the responce you get from them. You also have to remember sometimes call centers are not even owned by the company and they are farmed out to another company. So they may not truly have experince with the product, they are advising. Many companys hire outside experts to test and advise on their products, they get back from them there findings, and issue this out to the call centers. Many time the true experts in the field, have other jobs, and it would take way more money than the company can aford to even attract them. Last thing about experts, they may not be people persons, or they may be secertive about giving out knowledge, as they are tired of being told they are wrong.
You will find that there are shining start in some of these call centers, there are people there that do have an interest in the same genra of shooting that your in , and they spend there free time learning. One that comes to mind is Rich Macholtz of Sierra bullets. Rich is an acomplished rifle shooter, that shoots matchs, (Mostly 1000 yard benchrest) and is well vested, as he use to wright for a handloading magazine. He is the only one I will deal with there. Not that the others are dumb, but there experince and expertise is in other things. When I deal with Berger bullets I deal with the ledgandary Walt Berger, Walt is a higly acomplished benchrest shooter, that still shoots, and has a vast amount of knowledge between his ears.
With that said, keep an open mind, dont believe everything you read, or what someone tells you. When possible test the therories. The best way of learning is to spend time and shoot, and do some expermintation. Shooting competition is a great way to find knowledge, as the experts are there, and they will freely share knowledge with you, if your willing to listen. Just remember that not everyone is right, and sometimes people have alternitive motives with what they say, this goes with call centers, internet, and just plain people in general. What I am saying is dont take what a call center says as gospile, dont take what I say as gospile, and dont take what you read on the internet as gospile, a better way to look at it is this, consider everything as a guidline, not an absolute, experiment and see.
Now that this has all been said lets get this thread back on the the original topic.
Amen....
Finally got this gun under .5 moa at .445 at 100 yards hurray ;-)
http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/...psd277ea17.jpg
Load is 43.0 gns h4350 130 hunting VLD set at 2.860 cci br2
Now to load some up and step it out to 500 yards and see if it holds then do some drop doping ;-)
How different were those three loads?
KeS
42.8 43.0 and 43.5 went up to 43.8