Savage 6mm creedmoor and Hornady 108 grain match ammo - issues and analysis; blown primers

Hello all, any input or experiences appreciated.

Rifle is a Savage 110 Tactical in 6mm creedmoor, the desert tan model.

Only ammo that has been shot out of it is Hornady 108 grain eld match and Hornady Black 105 grain.

Issue: I have now experienced about a 15% blown primer ratio when shooting the 108 grain, and two broken ejectors. I have experienced no blown primers with the 105 grain.

In speaking with Hornady, they are pointing at the Savage. So I will be shooting some more and saving the ammo, good and bad with blown primers, to send to Hornady for analysis.

Has anyone else experienced this with this combination of rifle and ammo?

Thanks again for any input.

Is the bolt hard to close with the 108's?

Let's hear about your loading setup...

Been there, done that but not on the CM. Take a good look at the clearance between the firing pin and bolt head. I had to order several firing pins and cherry pick the largest to fix the issue with my 12FV. 2 trips back to the factory did no good though I can't complain about their service. Just couldn't identify the issue.

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

Is the bolt hard to close with the 108's?

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not that i remember. it did not catch my attention as being hard to close, but going forward i will be paying closer attention to that.

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Originally Posted by celltech

Let's hear about your loading setup...

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it is factory ammo. hornady 108 grain.

Are the primers completely blown out, or pierced in the center? The firing pin length can be easly adjusted: http://www.savageshooters.com/conten...rotrusion-Data

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Originally Posted by celltech

Are the primers completely blown out, or pierced in the center? The firing pin length can be easly adjusted: http://www.savageshooters.com/conten...rotrusion-Data

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completely blown out. i have pictures and will try to figure out how to upload.

Will be interesting to see the pics. Reading around the web lots of people complain about 6/6.5 Creed eating primer pockets after a couple of loads. I assume your rounds have large primers and are less tolerant of high pressures. Hornady shows those rounds running 2960fps which is at the higher end of load data. Are you able to chrono the rounds? Maybe your headspace is on the looser side combined with these loads.....but dunno.

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Originally Posted by celltech

Will be interesting to see the pics. Reading around the web lots of people complain about 6/6.5 Creed eating primer pockets after a couple of loads. I assume your rounds have large primers and are less tolerant of high pressures. Hornady shows those rounds running 2960fps which is at the higher end of load data. Are you able to chrono the rounds? Maybe your headspace is on the looser side combined with these loads.....but dunno.

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no luck loading the picture, it is a jpeg. when i do try it ask for a url. not sure what to do with that on this site.

anyway, i have not chrono'd the rounds yet, but will borrow one and give it a shot. as far as the rounds, large primers, etc., these are factory rounds from hornady, 108 grain eld match. no hand loads involved. hornady did tell me the 105 and 108 grain have been loaded at the factory to the same pressure.

Unless you are a paying member you can't post pics. You could put them on Google docs, share them, and post the URL here....or something to that effect.

lets see if this link works.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bp7q68rvtw...Again.JPG?dl=0

Just a wild thought...where are the ogives of the 108 in comparison to the lands vs. the 105?

If the 105's are fine, and the 108's are blowing primers, it's self evident. The 108's are higher pressure, despite what Hornady is telling you.

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Originally Posted by lonestardiver

Just a wild thought...where are the ogives of the 108 in comparison to the lands vs. the 105?

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Humm... I don't have reloading equipment yet to determine ogive, other details, etc., but here are some pics of the bullets. A quick view shows the 108s are longer than the 105s. I measured them with a caliper I had. As far as how this would effect pressure, I have and idea but am not an expert reloader, so any input appreciated.

Thanks guys.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5fqei98y8w...g108g.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jly4x5kymy...ength.JPG?dl=0

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

If the 105's are fine, and the 108's are blowing primers, it's self evident. The 108's are higher pressure, despite what Hornady is telling you.

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looks like the bullets are a bit longer too.

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Originally Posted by miscverb

looks like the bullets are a bit longer too.

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It is possible 108’s ogive is into the lands causing a pressure spike.

So as a check, chamber a round of the 108 and close the bolt fully and then eject the round. Do you see any marks on the bullet where it could be touching the rifling ?

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Originally Posted by lonestardiver

It is possible 108’s ogive is into the lands causing a pressure spike.

So as a check, chamber a round of the 108 and close the bolt fully and then eject the round. Do you see any marks on the bullet where it could be touching the rifling ?

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You might even coat the ogive area with perm marker first so you can clearly see where it's hitting...if at all.

And if you are willing to sacrifice the round you can turn it into an OAL checker.

92 thou difference for only 3gr heaver is a lot. That is one stretched out bullet or Hornady really wanted to stick it out there.

The pics are a bit low res but it looks like you have a lot of cratered primers as well? Do you see that on the 103’s? Looks like there might be some ejector swipes as well? The blown out ones have all sorts of soot left where the ejector is and a ring has formed on your bolt? Everything sure points to pressure, and no matter what Hornady says you might want to avoid those rounds for now. The 6 Creed is running some really stout specs to beat .243 velocity and are on the bleeding edge…

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Originally Posted by celltech

You might even coat the ogive area with perm marker first so you can clearly see where it's hitting...if at all.

And if you are willing to sacrifice the round you can turn it into an OAL checker.

92 thou difference for only 3gr heaver is a lot. That is one stretched out bullet or Hornady really wanted to stick it out there.

The pics are a bit low res but it looks like you have a lot of cratered primers as well? Do you see that on the 103’s? Looks like there might be some ejector swipes as well? The blown out ones have all sorts of soot left where the ejector is and a ring has formed on your bolt? Everything sure points to pressure, and no matter what Hornady says you might want to avoid those rounds for now. The 6 Creed is running some really stout specs to beat .243 velocity and are on the bleeding edge…

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here is the marker test. https://www.dropbox.com/s/5fsf0plxoh...dTest.JPG?dl=0

i did this several times and the results were consistent. not sure what this means, but the experiment was/is fun to learn. looks like the ring is at different spots on the bullets.


also as a sidebar, i did this with my Ruger 6mm and Browning 6mm. The results were consistent there as well, but the results were different. The results for the Ruger with both 105g and 108g did NOT show a circle pattern around the bullet like it did on the Savage. For the Browning, the results were the same as noted for the Ruger with NO circle pattern around the bullet, but the rounds were distinctly easier to eject on the Browning.

I do not recall if the 108g ever had blown primers with the Ruger or Browning. That will be an upcoming test.

NOT being an expert at all this, at this point would it make sense or be a possibility that the headspace needs to be reset on the Savage? Something else? I will say that overall the extraction of the bullet by opening the bolt on the Savage is more difficult than the Ruger or Browning.

You can seat the bullet a little deeper for the savage as it sounds like it has a shorter throat than the ruger or browning and is engaging the lands before it is ever fired and that will produce a pressure spike and likely is causing your blown primer issue.

In that picture it looks like your bolt face is pitted. I see 2 cases with primers missing. Maybe a few more that have gas burns around the primer. Unacceptable. I think Hornady has a problem. Stop using that ammo.

How many rounds through it. To me it appears it has a "tight" throat or throat with burrs (these usually are gone after a few rounds). Another possibility is the chamber misaligned with the bore. If it is misaligned the sharpie mark on the bullet will always be clocked at the same position (not even all the way around). If the ammo is way out of concentricity it may mark to one side also but not consistent clocking.
It may be worth a couple of more checks.
Thinking outloud.

Can you take some better pics of the fired cases from the 108eldm rounds. It’s hard to tell from the pic but it looks to me like there is some ejector marks on the brass. From looking at the marker test pics it looks to me like the 108s are getting jammed into the lands. This is actually a pretty common issue with the 6mm creedmoor because of different throat lengths on different reamers. My criterion 6mm creedmoor barrel was cut with a pre saami reamer and has a really short freebore.


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For my own curiosity...measure the 108 post test...did it jam hard enough to push the bullet in?

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Originally Posted by lonestardiver

You can seat the bullet a little deeper for the savage as it sounds like it has a shorter throat than the ruger or browning and is engaging the lands before it is ever fired and that will produce a pressure spike and likely is causing your blown primer issue.

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i don't have the gear for that.... yet