HELP communicating with BOYDS

I am trying to convince Boyds to offer more stocks for the 10/110 series with bull barrel channels. They do not understand Savage model designations. Go figure, right?

They agreed a while ago to offer a few stocks for the Hog Hunter ("bull" barrel, blind mag, center feed, top bolt release short action) , but won't offer a model 11 top bolt release (or bottom bolt release) center feed short action with detachable mag with a bull barrel channel. It's silly, really, I know, because it is fairly easy to open the barrel channel your self and make any of their stocks accept a varmint or bull barrel. That's not the point, though. THe point is they are unknowingly discouraging customers who don't know any better from ordering their stocks because they think they won't work. In my case, I've ordered maybe 75 stocks with factory barrel channels and had to open them up for varmint barrels and I am getting tired of it. I am a good customer, a dealer, and yet they won't listen to me. They say they get requests for bull barrel 12's but not 11's. I try explaining to them that makes no sense, and that there are a LOT of Savage shooters that want bull barrel channel short action center feed with detachable mag but they don't get it.

HELP me, please! My head is sore and the wall is bloody. :)

Can anyone else try to explain to them the issue here and /or can we all send them product requests for stocks made for Center Feed, Short Action, top and bottom bolt release with BULL barrel channels?????

I bet if 50 people submitted such a request in the next 10 days they might start to get a clue that MAYBE, just MAYBE they are missing something here and need to start LISTENING???? LOL

I honestly understand your gripe, but think of all the new shooters and some of the posts that show up showing someones lack of knowledge.
If someone didn't know any better, imagine ALLLLLL the bloody phone calls suddenly making it their responsibility to teach someone what the deuce they own. How many times on this board is there a thread asking the difference between a model 11 & 12? They never read the FAQ, and heaven forbid you mention it or they suddenly begin spitting venom at you.
Boyd's isn't the only one who doesn't want to inventory 10,000 different items, when 85% of them can easily be made to interchange with essentially no tools and a monkey holding a gritty stick.

^^^ Right. However, I am not asking for phone calls, just online product requests (they have an app for that). Also, they don't actually produce an inventory of products. They make an inventory of CNC programs. The stocks are all made to order. All it would take is someone to program their machines to make a model 11 s/a c/f dbm with BULL barrel channel rather than factory barrel channel. It's really no big deal. They just don't "get it". Also, what they don't know is how many people go to their site looking for stocks and give up not knowing they can be made to work with that gritty stick. How often do we tell people here that they can just go ahead and order the factory barrel channel and open it up themselves? Those same people usually start out saying. "I would get a Boyds' but they don't offer what I want... What other companies make affordable options for me?" We tell them to go ahead and get the factory barrel channel model and open it themselves. They normally say"oh, Okay" or "They told me there are no options for them". Cripe! If Boyds knew what we knew, they would either make them available or tell their customer service reps to suggest what we suggest. THe fact is, they don't know better.

As long as Savage continues to make small changes to parts year to year it's only going to get worse and worse. You're complaining about Boyds, but try getting a stock for a modern Savage from anyone else and you'll find Boyds is easily the most up-to-date in their offerings.

I wasted about an hour on the phone with McMillan today inquiring about a stock for a rifle I just ordered through Savage's Special Order Dept. They cant' do their Edge Tech fill in anything for a Savage, and while they can use graphite mat in place of fiberglass the 2-4 ounce weight savings isn't worth the $100 up-charge. On top of that, they can only inlet for a factory DBM or HFP on four of their stocks (A5, A3-5, A3 and HTG). That's fine if you're building a tactical or varmint rifle, but worthless if you're building a basic hunting rifle. All their other patterns have to be a blind mag because the shape/profile isn't compatible with Savage's bottom metal. Considering Savage has been using the newer DBM and HFP hardware for over ten years now, there's no reason they couldn't have come up with a solution to offer more stocks for them by now.

Will be calling Manners tomorrow as they're a little more up-to-date with their Savage offerings, but they also cost a fair bit more. They don't offer much detailed info on their website for the individual patterns (drop at comb, forearm width, etc) so I have no way of knowing if an EH6 or EH8 will be more to my liking.

So yeah, I wouldn't complain too much about Boyds. They might not be perfect, but they're still several steps ahead of the rest of the pack in terms of fitments and options.

^^^ Yep, I get all of that, too. Please, don't anyone get me wrong. I am a big fan of Boyds, maybe the biggest. I am amazed at the quality of their product for the price. And, I don't think there is anything wrong with them that can't be fixed if you're willing to put the extra work into them such as bedding and pillaring. Heck, if they weren't around, I don't know what I'd do.

I'm not complaining. Just trying to get them to understand, better, that when they get requests for a certain stock configuration for the model 12, it's essentially the same as a request for the model 11! Saying, "We don't get any requests for that in the model 11, just the model 12" tells me they are confused, like most everyone else.

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Originally Posted by foxx

^^^ Yep, I get all of that, too. Please, don't anyone get me wrong. I am a big fan of Boyds, maybe the biggest. I am amazed at the quality of their product for the price. And, I don't think there is anything wrong with them that can't be fixed if you're willing to put the extra work into them such as bedding and pillaring. Heck, if they weren't around, I don't know what I'd do.

I'm not complaining. Just trying to get them to understand, better, that when they get requests for a certain stock configuration for the model 12, it's essentially the same as a request for the model 11! Saying, "We don't get any requests for that in the model 11, just the model 12" tells me they are confused, like most everyone else.

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I understand where you're coming from, but you also have to understand where they are coming from as well. We're hacks/tinkerers - they don't cater to us, and by that definition we should be plenty capable of adapting something that's close to fitting our needs (that's the whole point of our "tinkering" with our Savages anyway isn't it?). Just like Savage builds guns for the masses, Boyds builds stocks for the masses - and the masses are those who aren't tinkering with their guns swapping out barrels or cobbling this and that together just to see if it can be done. The masses have bone stock guns that they just want a better stock for, and as such Boyds makes stocks for STOCK guns because that's what 99.5% of their customers are putting them on.

You and me and the others savaholics on this site are part of that other 0.5%. Those of us that fall into that small percentage know Savage's well enough to know that we can order a Model 12 stock for a heavy barrel and use it on our modified Model 11 that started life with a sporter barrel. Those that don't know that need to get off their duff's and educate themselves a little rather than just jumping blindly into it and expecting someone else to be the brains for them.

Amen Brother!! I'm a lefty myself, and if you think your option are limited.... try finding it in a Lefty!! I've been waiting for them to make a LH Pro Varmint for the Axis with a bull channel, heck I'd even be happy with a Factory barrel channel.... That was 5 or 6 years ago (axis 22-250 build) and I'm still waiting for them to pull their heads out!!

Why is it we Lefties get "no love"?

"I see!!!" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

I guess I am just gonna have to continue the way I've been doin'.

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I understand where you're coming from, but you also have to understand where they are coming from as well. We're hacks/tinkerers - they don't cater to us, and by that definition we should be plenty capable of adapting something that's close to fitting our needs (that's the whole point of our "tinkering" with our Savages anyway isn't it?). Just like Savage builds guns for the masses, Boyds builds stocks for the masses - and the masses are those who aren't tinkering with their guns swapping out barrels or cobbling this and that together just to see if it can be done. The masses have bone stock guns that they just want a better stock for, and as such Boyds makes stocks for STOCK guns because that's what 99.5% of their customers are putting them on.

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I would call that spot on.

I also do not quite get the lack of a Varmint Contour. Last stock I got had their version of a Varmint channel. It was not quite but it was simple to open up.

And I will note, the fit of the old Boyds I got with the 111 and the new one for the other gun are fabulous. Not just close but almost perfect.

I am very grateful. The miner stuff I can deal with and I could industrialize the process on channels if I needed to.

I do work with the Laminated stocks only, have not tried the others, but for me there is only one stock, TH Laminated.

foxx I hear your frustration. Stocks seem to have become a problem and expensive no matter what brand of action or barrel profile. Anyone here know of a good and speedy stock duplicating service? When you think about it Boyds offers a heck of a product for the money.