Printable View
I have a model 11 Hog Hunter in .308. I am thinking of buying an aftermarket 6.5 CM pre-fit barrel. I assume I'll need a barrel vise and a set of go, no-go gauges. How do I remove the smooth barrel but that came factory on my savage? I plan to replace it with a new grooved barrel nut but I'm unsure how to get the old barrel off. Any help would be appreciated, also some recommendations on pre-fit barrel sources if you have experience. Thanks in advance.
Ok, here we go again, but seeing as how I saw it first I get to answer first!
I prefer the action wrench and specifically NSS supplied as its setup very nicely and gives you specs for the clamp bolts, action screw as well as putting a nut back on. I researched it, thought it was best for me and more than happy with 5 barrels swaps.
Others like the barrel vice.
tie breaker may be if you have a decent size vice, though you and lay it flat on a bench and do it that way.
Look at some U tubes of people doing it and that may get you the feel for what seems to suit you.
The nut is one of those we need more data as its a bit limited as to how tight they are putting them on.
I just did one and it came off very easy with a 12 inch pipe wrench. I did a segmented nut that didn't want to come off with a barrel nut wrench (7 inch) and a break b ar (another 17 inches)
It may be the smooth nuts are not going on as tight.
If that does not work then its
1. Longer pipe wrench
2. Heat the nut up to about 300 degrees (you can get temple stick at any welding supply shop that is a crayon calibrated to melt at a given temperature)
3. cut it off or weakened it with cuts. That takes a good hand and experience, dremel will do it.
Barrels are like the action wrench vs the barrel wrench.
I don't know you can go wrong with Criterion, Shilen, X-Caliber, McGowan and quite a slew of the rest.
My preference is to go with the OEM and have it one stop shop for the work (Shilen). that way if anything is wrong its not a issue between the barrel maker and whoever put the Savage threads on it and chambered it. that said I got an X-Caliber that I think was a blank done by Apache and its good, I got a Shilen from them and ditto.
some of the members have additional recommends and I don't think you can go wrong with any of them from the group.
You want to go Cut Rifle and then you get into Krieger, Brux, and longer waits. Maybe a better barrel but I don't see me shooting that good.
.
Wheeler makes barrel nut wrench for the smooth nut. I used it to remove 2 smooth nuts no problem, and replaced them with the castellated ones after. I bought the 2 pack of savage barrel nut wrenches, one for each type of nut.
I think I got them from Opticsplanet but cant remember now. I know midway or brownells has them too. Both wrenches cost like $30 or less.
Go-no-go is a must and I agree you want a action vice and not a barrel vise. Somehow a vice around the receiver works better.
Altho I use a regular vice and made vice clamps out of wood for the action. drilled a 1.5" or 2" hole in a 2x4, then split in down the middle and put that around the action, then clamp it all in 6" vice. I've removed more than a dozen barrel nuts with it thus far with no problems.
Do a search on this site on smooth barrel nut. I just did one on a Mod 11 trophy hunter. The smooth nut proved very obstianate to remove. I used a 15" pipe wrench with my considerable mass on the end before it broke free. Note that I weigh north of 200 so you can guess the torque. My own experience with the Wheeler smooth nut wrench is terrible. I have seen my local gunsmith have the same struggle. I had the replacement barrel grooved barrel nut in hand beforehand. Also I gave the nut a soaking for 3 days in Kroil but any penetrating oil is good. You are correct about the headspace gauges. Another place to check is Midway USA or Gunshack for your stuff.
Does the Wheeler require a pin hole in the smooth nut? My smooth nut did not have one.
Sleeper 99: So it can go either way, I got drew a lucky nut as it were.
Go no go gauges are a good way to start, there are ways around it but if just getting going they are easier to be sure you are good (my opinion)
I have them for two calibers, not for the third that I use an alternate method for.
No pinhole in the wheeler smooth nut wrench.
The trick on how I get them off is.........
I take a 2.5lb mallet and smack the wrench open with a fast downward hit. Not hitting the nut wrench with the head of the mallet but with the middle of it (heads pointed sideways).
This works like a charm. Never had to hit it more than a few times as long as the receiver is tight enough in the vice. I believe it's the crack/shock-wave of the mallet hitting the wrench that brakes the nut free. hence why I use a lighter 2.5lb mallet instead of a 4lb one. I can swing the 2.5lb one much faster. It might even be a 2lb mallet now that I think of it, but the thing is so old it has no markings on it and I don't feel like weighing it.
i did the same with a small dead blow hammer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero333
Quick and easy.
OP,
If you are only ever going to do one barrel swap, then a barrel vice might be ok. But an action wrench is nicer/easier to use. If you're going to be doing this many times, then action wrench is the clear winner here, no contest. The wrench will cost more, but it's so much easier to use you'll be very happy you went that way. I use the Wheeler wrench, I bought from Midway iirc, and I did have to notch it for the Savage action:
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...lim/Tools2.jpg
I set this in my bench vice so that I can work on the swap "hands free". So far the barrels that I've swapped have all been on guns with castellated nuts (not smooth ones), so I have no feedback with the smooth nut wrenches. I use the Wheeler castellated nut wrench:
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...lim/Tools3.jpg
Works a slick treat, and I've pulled 6 or 8 barrels now without any issues. Here's a pic of my "setup" getting ready to take one off:
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...slim/Step4.jpg
I take a dead blow hammer and smack straight down on the top of the nut wrench, close to the end of the wrench. I've never had to smack one twice. Even the blued ones come right off on the first smack. I agree with the statement that it's the "shock" of the blow that unseats the nut. Which is why I use a dead blow hammer.
Here's putting the new barrel on, basically same setup, but you're pushing the wrench the other direction:
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...lim/Step10.jpg
I usually give the wrench a light "rap" with the mallet to set it against the action. Just done by "feel", so kind of hard to explain I guess. I only use a Go gauge, and don't own any No Go gauges. Here's a Go gauge:
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...lim/Step11.jpg
Set the barrel against the Go gauge when you spin it into place, then a "light rap" against the wrench to set the threads. Also, some don't, but I do take the extractor out of the bolt when I set headspace with the Go gauge:
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/r...lim/Step9A.jpg
Then, once you have headspaced the barrel and "set" the nut, just take a piece of plain old clear "Scotch tape" and put it on the base of the Go gauge, and try to chamber that gauge with the tape on the base. It shouldn't allow you to close the bolt all the way. That is your "No-Go" check.
Thank you all for your help, now to decide on a barrel. I think I have narrowed it down to ordering off x-caliber website or calling NSS and ordering one of their Criterion or Shilien barrels. Any advise either way on this. Also I'd like to stay in the 20"-24" range with 22" being the way I'm currently leaning. Also would like to confirm that 1/8 or 1/8.5 is the preferred twist rate for 6.5 Creedmoor.
I have bought several rifles and barrels from NSS. Can't say enough good things about him. Barrel length would be entirely dependent on usage and personal preference. Either 8 or 8.5 twist should let you shoot any bullet weight you want in a 6.5 bore.
Good luck, and post pics when you get it all together.
I got my Shilen from NSS, good to deal with and one stop for that. Depends on the barrel as to how much wait. My bull 06 is indeed odd and it was 3 months.
What was also nice was he checked to make sure a nut went up and down the threads easily before he shipped it on.
Their Action wrench has the cutout in it, the nut wrench is the same as Slowpoke Slim and the square hole works well for a breaker bar or a torque wrench..
Nuts and lug are top notch. One stop shopping if you want.
For reluctant smooth nuts I suspect a pipe wrench works fine if you smack it. Mine came off easy and not needed.
I would not get another wrench just for that, but I do have the pipe wrench and the torch if needed.
Heat to 350, get a temple stick from a welding supply house of that temp, heat, check heat check until crayon melts then take it off.
I am not keen on that, its probably ok heat wise and its on the nut but adjacent does heat up. I would use reasonable force (pipe wrench and a smack) then cut the nut if needed.
RC20, how does your Shilen shoot? I am currently getting about 1 MOA out of my factory barrel, but I think I am capable of more.
Now that is an embarrassing question, but ok never the less (grin)
The problem is I am not good enough to say solidly (yet anyway)
I think the Shilen is capable of shooting something from 1/2 to 3/8 MOA consistently, maybe 1/4.
You can up the odds a tad by ordering their Super Grade which is checked to tighter tolerance.
I don't think I am good enough to be worth it.
I have had some groups with 4 shots in one hole with it, flyer someplace in the string, usually but not always the last one.
My approach to this was to get two good barrels (The Shilen and an X-Caliber in 308) and I have the factory varmint contour that I just got mounted back up on my play chassis.
It seems that if I can hold my end up, all are easily under 3/4 MOA and the two after markets look to be sub 5/8 or better.
My feeling is once you get one shooting under 3/4, then the very tinniest off with the shooter, the trigger control shifts you off.
Some days I have gotten some good 1/2 MOA and under and then go back with same ammo and lucky to hit the paper (1 inch) Quite annoying.
There is also the ammo factor. While my reloads are good, I don't do neck trimming, concentric etc, so its possible the ammo has some part in it as well.
I shoot off a front and rear bag but not a lead sled.
I got a great load going today (actually abut 6l)
Shilen was shooting consistently 1/2 MOA, got a bit loose on the next to last group, getting dark, wind blowing 15 or so, 20 degrees, made a COAL adjustment and got 3/8 group at 105 yds.
Darnk enough I hade to have the illuminator turned on (I have a 1/8 dot in a Nightforce )
the XC was also doing sub 5/8 with one load. Powders were Hodgen Extreme which is what I shoot this time of year with the temps we have.
More than happy with that, if it shoots that good under the conditions I can fine tune it a bit better..
Kind of reinforce to me that the button rifled barrels are good for 1/2 MOA if youy have the rigbht setup.
Thanks for all the replies and reports guys. I have ordered a 26" 1:8 twist Shilen select match from NSS along with his precision recoil lug and barrel nut. I went with the 26" instead of a 24" because he had one in stock and ready to ship. UPS says it will be here Weds. This is going on a model 11 in a MDT LSS chassis system. I'll report back when I get it together.
Sounds good and looking forward to the report.
Also when ordering barrels you can always ask if they can be shortened up. My XC was 28 inches to start with and that was too much. It took another week but I got it at 26 inches and thoughts are 24 would be better (though when I shoot it out then I can get it shortened up.
Just don't get discouraged. One of the reasons I went with the XC 308 was a cross check to see if it was me or the barrels.
Finding the right load can be a challenge. Some can be picky on powder and bullets and even primers.
I got surprised by the Shilen yester4day, I had a range of H4831 of 3 grains and it was shooting the whole range nicely if I had seating depth down and I was on. I have to look over targets but I had 4 groups 1/2 and under including the one group shot in dim light with the illuminator on, wind picked up, range guy asking how I was managing (6 hours) at those temps.
I think Shilen is a solid choice, others as good, maybe a few more misses.
My problem continues to be I don't think I can outshoot the barrels and frustrating at times to try to sort out me, the barrel or even the load. .
I keep improving though its up and down, some days I can't shoot at all in the best conditions and others times like yeste4rday, I am doing well in relay poor conditions.
I believe a good button rifled barrel is good to something at 1/2 Inch at 100, always possible to get a tack driver that does better but I think you can count on 1/2
You might eventually find a bullet powder combo that changes the 1/2 to 1/4, I think that is the harder part.
What I look for is something that is consistent then play with it and other loads and go back to the consistent one as a cross check
It does not have to be 1/4, if its a consistent 5/8 then I am good.