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I have a new Savage Model 10T. It came with a factory installed pic rail scope base. I took it off because there was grease everywhere and the screws were not consistently tightened down. I have cleaned it up and am ready to reinstall it onto my receiver. What is the torque recommendation in inch pounds for the rail?
Lastly, I saw a youtube where the guy recommends putting loctight (red) on the rail for installation. Thoughts on that?
Thanks
I'd think blue instead of red....? Just in case you later want to put another rail on (different MOA).Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverDave
He used red in the video (installing a 20moa badger rail), but I would use blue incase an upgrade is down the road. Re torque, i found this thread that says: 40 lbs without bedding pillars, 65 lbs with. I am not entirely sure what "bedding pillars" are but I belive that I dont have them as the holes in my reciever apear to be just that... its a $600 rifle afterall so I dont anticipate there being many high end details/featurs.
I would call the mfg if unsure and find out, or get an official listing.
Inch pounds versus vs foot lbs.
make sure you use the right term
Dry Vs Lubbed (and what lube?) Also critical
there is no need for that stuff anyway, right torque and it will not come off. If it does loosen the screw have gone into plastic deformation and you need new ones
I suspect Savage uses the stuff as a "has anyone broke the seal check"
I broke loose the bolt screw the other day, had nothing to do with thread lock and all to do with super glue lock
That is for the action screws holding the action in the stock, which can have pillars. Use blue loctite and 25 INCH pounds for the scope base screws.Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverDave
I've always used 15in lbs for scope base screws. I've never used lock-tite either. I can't say it's the right way, but it has always worked for me as long as I was using quality parts.
What we have is the myth creeping in.
I have often seen people put various dope mixtures on flare fittings. The reality is a flare fitting is not intended to work with dope, you wreck the machine fit interface.
And I am not pointing fingers of dissing anyone, but its plain ignorance when this creeps in and then gets perpetrated.
Get what the fastener is intended to have, get the tool to do so if you don't have the feel, make sure you are doing it lubed or dry per the instruction (that is critical , lubed done to dry spec is way over torque.
If it loosens up then the fastener has been taken into the plastic range (not the elastic that pulls) and needs to be replaced.
https://www.badgerordnance.com/media...-and-bases.pdf
Some myth from Badger Ordnance.
Can you explain what the plastic and elastic ranges are please?
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I use 25inlbs for scope bases unless manufacturer recommends another torque. Scope ring screws I torque to 15inlbs unless manufacturer recommends another amount. I use a wheeler ratchet torque wrench. I will use blue locktite except when manufacturer instructions say not to use.
Thanks for the help guys. I got it my rings today and everything is all mounted up nicely.
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[QUOTE=DenverDave;368394]Can you explain what the plastic and elastic ranges are please?
Happy to, its a shame there is not a basic mechanics class for people now, you learned that stuff growing up as second nature, if your dad did not work on that stuff someone close did and usually happy to show you the ropes.
First a fastener works on clamping force. So the needed tension is up and down the threads. If its a sliding force joint and need more clamp, you go to higher grade fastener, larger or both. Fastener is a type of spring.
A fastener will take a certain amount of tensions (converted to torque which is a twisting force.). There actually are other ways to do it, one is called torque turn, you do a light torque then so many degrees of turn after that without a torque wrench.
Elastic is where when you undo the fastener, its springs back to its original dimension (we are talking small, but its measurable, one way to do it is with a dial indicator used on really huge engines)
Plastic is when you have stretched the fastener so far it no longer springs back. Classic symptom is you tighten, it comes loose, you tighten it comes loose. Its toast. Ergo you want to use a torque wrench (or driver per Wheeler) if you are not used to working with that.
Sometimes you can see a narrowing of the fastener where it yielded, sometimes not.
torque is not a very exact measurement, its just the best you can do and a well done setup has latitude on either side so you get good results despite the variant (something like 25% off easily)
Real important toque will specify lubed threads or dry and woe be unto those who don't follow it.
In engine work often the type of lube is specified (engine oil, anti seize and type (Nickel etc)) We used to use some stuff called peanut butter on head bolts, toxic as hell and gone now but it was the spec for those fasteners.
Some head bolts are now one time use. You have taken them so far per spec they no longer spring back but perfectly good for one use. I don't get why but its there and you have to follow that or your head will come loose re--using those had bolts, I don't like it.
Head toque is a critical one so they get down to very specific. threads should always be as clean as you can get them. Any crud screws up the torque value
I have seen a lot of U tube on barrel removal where they do not clean the threads on the barrel or nut (or inside receiver), heresy to a mechanic.
I think this system is in between with a lot of latitude (barrel) but I like NSS with very specific instruction for using anti seize as well as what torque value.
note that a torque wrench is for the pull at the middle of the torque wrench handle and that's specific to its length.
If you have the torque wrench on an extension like the barrel nut tool, you need to adjust the torque (down) to accommodate that.
There are on line calculators for it, just be sure the result is lower than what you started (you have more leverage, ergo less force at the end of the lever) and always pull at the middle of the torque wrench (good ones have a line for you on the handle)
From what I see the Savage system is not picky, but if you give me values I will use them (I have the torque wrenches) and you tell me its with anti seize then that's what I use as well.