Sanity check plz, 11vt 308 varget tight chamber load!

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03-12-2016, 12:11 AM
OscarMike

Sanity check plz, 11vt 308 varget tight chamber load!

Hello all!, Sorry I normally don't like to make a first post to a board like this one but I really need a sanity check for my savage and figured this is the best place!

A little background / history if I may,
I've been reloading pistol for a while but only just got into rifle about 6 months ago.

I have a savage model 11vt 308 (dicks sporting goods) with a swfa ss 10x mil quad scope.
FIrst time out with factory ammo I got 1" groups, second time out to the range it was worst (then found out scope had loosened)

I then started reloading the 308 using Benchmark, I didn't have a COAL guage so I used the old modified case / close the bolt slow method to see what my max COAL to the lands were for my 168gr Hornady BTHP Match bullets...
I was getting right @ 2.8" oal which is what the book called for, so I set COAL @ 2.785 worked up a batch of 5 rounds each of benchmark of 38, 38.5, 39, 39.5, 40, 40.5
Went to the range and noticed after shooting them the bolt was stiff (stiff but not pound open with a block of wood stiff) but my groups were 3"

I went back to factory ammo and got the same results, so after testing it I found the scope wasn't holding zero well so I swapped it out for a SWFA SS10x

This last weekend I went back out with the new scope and some more benchmark reloads @ 40grs of BENCHMARK I got back to 1" groups but still had some stiff bolt action...

I heard benchmark wasn't great for 168grs in 308 and I happened across some Varget AND I bought a hornady OAL guage and bullet comparator....
To my surprise I found out that my previous OAL was WAY into the lands....so much in fact that my new max OAL to the lands is 2.690, from the base of the case to the OGIVE is 2.085!!!

I thought this was way wrong, no way could I have been that far into the lands so I redid my old test with a modified case and closing the bolt BUT this time I had a cleaning rod down the barrel to help gently push the bullet when I was opening the bolt... Sure enough the measurement came out close to what the hornady OAL guage was reading... I'm assuming the lands were holding the bullet some as I opened the bolt the first time doing the test....

OK so now I know I Need to load shorter and thank God I didn't over pressure / try to load to max load when seating into the lands on my first 2 runs.

Now to varget... All the references I have shows for 168gr and Varget from 42grs to 46grs COMPRESSED....
HOWEVER with my new deeper seating depth of 2.075 to OGIVE I loaded up 5 rounds @ 42grs of Varget Not compressed but close
and 42.5Grs (heard some grs crunching when seating fully) but still didn't really seem "compressed"....

Is this ok? Am I on the right track or am I way off??? I never heard of the Savages having such a tight throat / chamber until I discovered it on mine and started searching out info.

Being a Savage based forum what do you guys recommend?
Thank you in advance for any help / suggestions!
03-12-2016, 03:50 AM
shawnhu

My savage 11 also has a tight throat. Most of the recommended COAL would jam in my rifle.
03-12-2016, 12:46 PM
OscarMike

Any recommendations on how much to reduce the load based on shorter oal?
03-12-2016, 02:06 PM
m12lrs

just watch for pressure signs and stay below them. I use the 168 gr berger hybrid hunter with 44 grains of varget in my .308. that is a classic load. Many load it hotter.

have you shot your 42 gr load? how were the pressure signs. Varget is a bulky powder. It is not uncommon at all to crunch a little seating bullets,
03-12-2016, 02:08 PM
OscarMike

I haven't shot yet, just started loading them last night, on the 42.5grs with the crunching I decided not to load more. ..
May load some 41.5, 41, 39.5, and 39grs to go in the other direction. .?
03-12-2016, 02:42 PM
m12lrs

Quote:

Originally Posted by OscarMike

I haven't shot yet, just started loading them last night, on the 42.5grs with the crunching I decided not to load more. ..
May load some 41.5, 41, 39.5, and 39grs to go in the other direction. .?

I wouldn't waste my time with loads less than 42 until you shoot that 42.5 load. You won't be happy with your velocities. Crunching varget is common practice. Where I found my jump for the berger vld col is way less than mag length. I am 0.10 off the lands.
03-14-2016, 04:36 AM
Richiez28

A little of topic , how do you like the swfa I also have an 11vt also thinking about an swfa with a 20moa rail and low rings
03-14-2016, 09:09 AM
FW Conch

This is all to common lately. Savage should be taken to task for it. A factory rifle should be able to safely shoot factory ammo with no issues what so ever. Most of the rifles sold to the public are sold to people who intend to shoot factory ammo only and never intend to reload, much less aquire a Stoney Point Gauge.

Apparently, brand loyalty runs so deep on this site, that the "knowledgeable" choose to remain silent on the subject? But wrong is wrong. If that were my rifle and I didn't intend to reload, I would be getting in touch with Savage with my complaint. In the hands of a novice a throat that short could be dangerous. Even when reloading, the situation limits the owner to less than standard case capacity.

The reason SAMMI exists is so that a novice shooter can buy a rifle and load factory ammo in that rifle and shoot it safely, without issue. If that cannot be done, the rifle is not properly chambered.

JMHO...Jim :-)
03-14-2016, 09:17 AM
OscarMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richiez28

A little of topic , how do you like the swfa I also have an 11vt also thinking about an swfa with a 20moa rail and low rings

I love it so far, I also have 20moa rail but low rings wouldn't work, had to use medium
03-14-2016, 11:55 AM
earl39

Jim is right. Another thing is the constant use of tight chamber to describe a short throat. These are two different things with different fixes. If the throat is to short send it back and have savage fix it. If you intend to reload only you can work around it.
03-14-2016, 12:02 PM
darkker

Quote:

Originally Posted by OscarMike

Now to varget... All the references I have shows for 168gr and Varget from 42grs to 46grs COMPRESSED....
HOWEVER with my new deeper seating depth of 2.075 to OGIVE I loaded up 5 rounds @ 42grs of Varget Not compressed but close
and 42.5Grs (heard some grs crunching when seating fully) but still didn't really seem "compressed"....

Just remember that load manuals are not a fixed standard. No one lists lot numbers tested, or burning rate variations. They also test in SAAMI minimum spec chambers/barrels, so you won't have the same velocities with a factory rifle.
So don't take the charges as a fixed, absolute. The important thing to do, is start at the beginning load and chronograph it. See what the difference in velocity is, that will let you know where your powder lines up with the book data. When you suddenly catch-up to book velocities, you are at, or above book pressures.