Powder choice for 223 75 gr A-Max

I've been chasing accuracy for the last year and a half. I'm looking for consistent bug holes in the target and I'm getting close. I'm currently using CFE223 and found that powder with 55gr V-max gave an extreme spread of 30fps for a ten shot string.

That same powder pushing a 75 gr A-Max gave extreme spreads from 69 to 79 fps for several 5 shot groups.

I have a bottle of Varget that I plan to try with the 75 g bullets but I'm wondering if Reloader 15 would be any better?

Do any of you have experience, chrono data, for both of these powders pushing a heavy bullet?

Thanks in advance.

Bud

I've found several discussions on this very topic online including one here in this forum. It seems that the two powders are nearly identical. So, I'm just going to experiment with the Varget to see how my groups look with the 75 gr A-Max and go from there.

If you are that close to where you want the be, I would play a little with seating depth and see what happens.

I can only comment on group size. Savage 12 F/TR .223.

Shot better at 100 yds with Varget. Best load was with 23.7 gr.

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Originally Posted by adammiddagh

If you are that close to where you want the be, I would play a little with seating depth and see what happens.

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Yep, that will follow. I've got the tools to measure depth to the lands and then set bullet depth to the curve of the bullet.

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Originally Posted by Fotheringill

I can only comment on group size. Savage 12 F/TR .223.

Shot better at 100 yds with Varget. Best load was with 23.7 gr.

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I appreciate that info. Varget is one of the powders that I started with and then stopped using it, but that was with the factory barrel that turned out to be a POS. I've yet to burn any in this new McGowan barrel so I'm hopeful.

I'm using ADI2208 = Varget 24.7 gr with a Savage Model 12 VLP DBM .223 with a 26" 1:7 twist barrel for 80 gr A-Max in Norma cases.

Shoots well in FTR competition out to 800 yards, out to 1000 in light winds.

Chrono'd at 2840 fps

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

I'm using ADI2208 = Varget 24.7 gr with a Savage Model 12 VLP DBM .223 with a 26" 1:7 twist barrel for 80 gr A-Max in Norma cases.

Shoots well in FTR competition out to 800 yards, out to 1000 in light winds.

Chrono'd at 2840 fps

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Nice. Sounds like i'm on the right track.

Just be aware of Varget's side effects.
A hazard of the coatings used to make Varget "Extreme" in the 7.62 ball ammo, causes hard Carbon fouling in small bores. It also isn't terribly stable in the 223.
Simply having larger ES/SD's don't always tell you how it will shoot.
Am example to that effect is my load in a 204. That load is a cloverleaf 5-hole Shooter out to 200 yards, but the ES is over 100. Prior to grouping it, I wouldn't have believed that possible. Sent the load to another member here, who found all the above to be the same result in his rifle.

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Originally Posted by darkker

Just be aware of Varget's side effects.
A hazard of the coatings used to make Varget "Extreme" in the 7.62 ball ammo, causes hard Carbon fouling in small bores. It also isn't terribly stable in the 223.
Simply having larger ES/SD's don't always tell you how it will shoot.
Am example to that effect is my load in a 204. That load is a cloverleaf 5-hole Shooter out to 200 yards, but the ES is over 100. Prior to grouping it, I wouldn't have believed that possible. Sent the load to another member here, who found all the above to be the same result in his rifle.

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I can absolutely confirm the carbon fouling.

For me it was RE15 on the 75 amax. Full disclosure, this is for my AR service rifle not a Savage or even bolt rifle. Too long to load in the magazine as I have them seated to just kiss the lands, and have to load them single shot for the 600 yard line. But it shoots at 3/4" @ 200 yards...as long as the loose nut behind the trigger doesn't screw things up.

all i use in my 223 is benchmark.

Tried Varget last Friday and it did not impress me. A friend was at the range and had milk jugs set up at 840 yards. I lobbed a couple of my 75gr A-Max loads using Kentucky windage and only came close. That got me wondering if the scope had enough MOA adjustment to be able to hold dead on at 840 yards. So, back at home and a little work with two different ballistic calculators and the Vortex scope specks told me that it would work with 27MOA dialed up on the scope. I could not wait to get out to the range.

Made it today and dialed in the calculated setting. Could not see the splash from the first round but the second one was about 2 feet high and slightly left. I tried to hold low and right and only came close. Then I woke up and decided to trust the scope adjustments and took out two MOA of vertical and hit next to the jug. two quarter clicks to the right and I popped the jug on the next shot. WooHoo. 840 yard milk jug with my .223. Who'd a thought?

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Originally Posted by Idaho

I've found several discussions on this very topic online including one here in this forum. It seems that the two powders are nearly identical. So, I'm just going to experiment with the Varget to see how my groups look with the 75 gr A-Max and go from there.

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I get good results with Varget and the 75 grain A-Max in a factory varmint weight, stainless, fluted barrel with a 9" twist.

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Originally Posted by GaCop

I get good results with Varget and the 75 grain A-Max in a factory varmint weight, stainless, fluted barrel with a 9" twist.

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What kind of velocity are you getting out of that load?

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Originally Posted by Texas10

What kind of velocity are you getting out of that load?

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Don't know about GaCop but I'm using 24.5 gr of CFE223 behind the 75gr A-Max. Chrono average is 2730 fps. At 840 yards the ballistics calculators tell me it is still travelling at 1300 fps with about 300 foot pounds of energy.

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Made it today and dialed in the calculated setting. Could not see the splash from the first round but the second one was about 2 feet high and slightly left. I tried to hold low and right and only came close. Then I woke up and decided to trust the scope adjustments and took out two MOA of vertical and hit next to the jug. two quarter clicks to the right and I popped the jug on the next shot. WooHoo. 840 yard milk jug with my .223. Who'd a thought?

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Me, my .223 hangs right with my 6.5 CM to 600 yards shooting Black Hills 77 SMK, starts dropping off after that point, 11 mils at 1K, easy enough to hit the target if it isn't too windy.

+1 for Reloder 15

I shoot my Savage Model 12 FVSS out to 600 now and then. I have always gone with RL-15 and CCI-BR4 primers. The 75 A Max is a good long range bullet. Very accurate also.

wifes m10 with a 26" 1-8t cbi barrel vortex crossfire scope 8x32x50 (the thing has never been off) 20 moa base lapua cases, fed 205m primers, 75gr amax, stout load of varget (pushing it hard so cant give the grains) she has no problem shooting 600 yards and son has taken it out to 800 yards without any problem. her come up from 300 zero is up 10 moa

I shoot service rifle with N135 and 75 gr BTHP match bullets. I get consistent 0.75" groups shooting iron sights. It seems cleaner than Varget, but I haven't seen any Varget in quite a while.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned 8208 XBR. Easily sub moa in my semis with a 77gr SMK. Velocity leaves something to be desired in my 16"ers tho, but that's why I own a 308 Savage.

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/p...6cfa22ff18.jpg

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Originally Posted by darkker

Just be aware of Varget's side effects.
A hazard of the coatings used to make Varget "Extreme" in the 7.62 ball ammo, causes hard Carbon fouling in small bores. It also isn't terribly stable in the 223.
Simply having larger ES/SD's don't always tell you how it will shoot.
Am example to that effect is my load in a 204. That load is a cloverleaf 5-hole Shooter out to 200 yards, but the ES is over 100. Prior to grouping it, I wouldn't have believed that possible. Sent the load to another member here, who found all the above to be the same result in his rifle.

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I too have learned that low ES/SD isn't always indicative of tight groups, go figure.....

Imr 8208 xbr great powder in 223. Loaded 23gr 75 amax 10 off lands