Learning MIL/MIL Scopes

Hey guys! I have a Primary Arms 4-14x44 MIL/MIL scope on my model 11 in 308. Was wondering if anyone had some graphs/charts or advice on learning mil/mil.

This type of shooting is new to me, having a hard time grasping the concept and adjustments when using this type of measurement.

As I understand it, 1/10mil at 100 yards is .36 moa or .36 inches. So If I am off to the left and down 1 inch, I need about 3 clicks up and 3 clicks right. Does that sound about right? This is at 100 yards of course.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

**bonus questions**

Whats a good ammo to buy to keep consistency when practicing and sighting in?

How do you make sure your reticle is centered, mine seems slightly canted left but looks like its level when not looking down it

Yes sir that is the correct concept at 100 yards... Here's what I found from the Carolina shooters club...

http://www.carolinashootersclub.com/...MilRad-Reticle

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98...ps723a3112.jpg

I love the EBR-1 or the NP-R1 reticle because I can just place the reticle where my bullet landed and guess-timate my adjustments and can do a follow up shots immediately...


It would be nice to invest in one of these bubble levels...

Install this on your rifle base... This is more important than the scope bubble level...
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98...ps167db0d3.jpg

Then at 100 yard target with a use of a carpenter bubble level and a marker draw a line across the target and make sure the target doesn't move once you have done this...

Then have your rings top part is loose to make the adjustments necessary to get your reticle lined up with the line on the target WHILE making sure the base bubble level is leveled. Once the base bubble level is centered and the reticle is lined up with the line you draw on a target, slowly tighten the top screws making sure that the scope doesn't move...

After the rings are tightened and base bubble level is still leveled, install the scope bubble level. This is the easy part, just make sure the base bubble is centered and tighten the scope bubble level and make sure it is also centered...
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98...psb3dfd4c3.jpg

Once you have this on the scope RIGHT the first time, there's no need to calibrate the scope if you move it to a different rifle...


If you want to be double check your scope if it is leveled you can draw a vertical line using one of those extra long bubble levels carpenters uses to make up for the adjustment you are going to make on your scope later. Place a mark in the middle of that line to mark your 100 y zero.

Before shooting MAKE SURE the base level is centered every EACH SHOT. Fire 3 rounds on the 100 yard mark it should be dead on. Adjust your scope ALL THE WAY UP until you can no longer make any adjustments, WHILE STILL aiming the cross hair at the 100 yard mark. Make sure the base bubble is centered each shot, and fire three rounds.

Hoping that your target can accommodate the adjustments you are about to do i.e. Your scope vertical adjustments is 10 mils then make sure you have 36" of paper above and below the 100y mark.

Now those 3 shots should land on the line you draw, if it did, drop the adjustments all the way down and shoot 3 rounds while STILL aiming at the 100y mark, if done right it should land on that same line but below the 100y mark. If it did not, verify the bubble levels... I have 4 USOptics, 3 holland and 2 vortex bubble level and all of them are very accurate.

I think you are making a mistake trying to determine what 1 mil is at 100yds. What makes mil/mil work is you can use your scope's reticle to determine how many clicks to use for correcting POI and POA.

Don't worry about what 1 mil equates to at 100 yds if you don't worry about what it is at 113.2765 yds (for example). There is no need to try to determine what measurement the angle creates at multiple distances. What matters is what is the angle.

Well, that's not true, either. But the only reason I can think of to want to know what 1 mil will equate to in length at a particular distance is if you want to use your mil reticle's subtensions to estimate range. If you know the actual size of a target in your scope, you can extrapolate what the distance is to the target.

Remember that mil is a term used to describe the size of an angle, nothing more.

Also, we do ourselves a misjustice when we base our understanding of MOA on the fact that, at 100 yds, 1 MOA is APPROXIMATELY 1 inch. That is just a pure coincidence that does not really help us to understand MOA, either. MOA and MIL BOTH describe the size of an angle, not a measurement at 100 yds.

To put it another way... A trained spotter would not tell you your shot hit 1 inch high (or right, etc.) at 100 yds if you are using and MOA scope or a MIL scope. What he would tell you, instead, is you were 1 MOA high (or right, etc.) or so many MILS. The reason is, what you really need to know is the angle of correction needed, not the linear measurement that angle will create at a given distance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackImpact

Hey guys! I have a Primary Arms 4-14x44 MIL/MIL scope on my model 11 in 308. Was wondering if anyone had some graphs/charts or advice on learning mil/mil.

This type of shooting is new to me, having a hard time grasping the concept and adjustments when using this type of measurement.

As I understand it, 1/10mil at 100 yards is .36 moa or .36 inches. So If I am off to the left and down 1 inch, I need about 3 clicks up and 3 clicks right. Does that sound about right? This is at 100 yards of course.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

**bonus questions**

Whats a good ammo to buy to keep consistency when practicing and sighting in?

How do you make sure your reticle is centered, mine seems slightly canted left but looks like its level when not looking down it

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Your on the right path. Mike Vegas gave you a pretty good chart to go by.
For me....................the biggest mistake I made was listening to mathematical instructers/teachers explain millridian (sp) to me. While its very informative, it basically strayed me away from the "common sense" use of the scope,s turrets.
Take Mike Vegas lead. Its easier than you think. Once you figure it out, you,ll see what I mean.
I preffer MOA scopes myself.
As far as ammo?.......Seeing as how your buying and not rolling your own, then Id suggest Federal Gold Medal Match with 168gr SMK.
Once you get your rig zero,d @ 100 and want to start tossing them out farther, Hornady has a Ballistic calculator that gives you your drop and amount of adj. needed in MOA or MIL.
FYI....dont go by the speed thats stated on the box of ammo. You,ll have to chrono whatever rds your using.

Here's an NSSF video on using mils:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5AG...D&index=12

So I should stop thinking, oh its 3 inches over so thats so many mils, but oh its 3 mils over so I need to move 3 mils the opposite direction.

Also my initial purchase with my rifle was Colt Zinc plated 308, 168gr fmjbt.

I did not realize that this was actually what I wanted because I am impatient and did not take two seconds to read the box. I have about 60 rounds of these left.

Again, MIL and MOA are both nothing more than a measure of an angle.

You cannot say you understand MOA if you do not understand MIL.

When measuring the angle of how far off center your bullet hole is from your target, place your reticle on the center of your target. If the hole is exactly at the point on your reticle that is denoted at 1 MOA, then you know you missed by 1 MOA. If you are certain you made a good shot, you will want to adjust your scope's reticle by 1MOA. That means you will want to move it 4 clicks b/c the scope's reticle moves 1/4 MOA per click. If your shot hit 1.5 MOA from center of aiming point, then you want to move your scopes reticle 6 clicks in that direction b/c 6 x .25 = 1.5.

The same is true if your scope's reticle is marked-off with MIL subtensions and the reticle is adjusted by so many fractions of a mil per click.

What your teachers are trying to do is teach you how to apply mathematical principles to solve mathematical problems. They are not trying to confuse you. Once you understand the principal, you will be able to use the tool. Not before. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackImpact

So I should stop thinking, oh its 3 inches over so thats so many mils, but oh its 3 mils over so I need to move 3 mils the opposite direction.

Also my initial purchase with my rifle was Colt Zinc plated 308, 168gr fmjbt.

I did not realize that this was actually what I wanted because I am impatient and did not take two seconds to read the box. I have about 60 rounds of these left.

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EXACTLY!!! It took me awhile to figure that out b/c my scopes did not have subtensions marked on them. I had no idea what the angle was, all I ever knew was 1 click change POI 1/4 inch at 100 yds. Once I got a tactical scope with marked reticle, I could see how it worked.

Sorry. I dont know why this is not taking for me.

Warning:

If you are using a variable scope with Second Focal Plane Reticle, your subtensions will change with a change in magnification. To use them accurately, you must adjust the power of magnification to whatever the power the subtensions were marked for.

If you are using a fixed power scope, or one that has the reticle on the First Focal Plane, you don't have to worry, because everything remains constant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackImpact

Sorry. I dont know why this is not taking for me.

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That's because you are still making assumptions that 1 moa is 1 inch at 100 yds. Forget that. Don't measure the distance at the target, measure the amount of angle you are using to observe that spread.

Trust me, you might not ever "get it" if you don't use a scope with reticles marked in subtensions. But, if you aren't using a scope with subtensions, it won't help you to understand MOA and MIL. So don't worry about it. :) I am not being snotty, it just doesn't matter in that situation. And that's okay, because if all you are doing is hunting, and hunting at "reasonable" range, you will be alright. Honestly, I have never had occasion to apply what I know about MOA or MIL for that very reason. Now that I have scopes designed for this purpose, and am starting to shoot with them, I am eager to apply what I know.

Try envisioning this:
Assume your rifle shoots a laser beam instead of a bullet...
Rather than a scope, you mount a laser sight on top of your action...

When you first mount it, the laser sight will not hit the same spot on the target that your rifle's laser will hit. To make both lasers hit the same sopt on the target, you don't need to know how far off they are at a certain distance, you just need to move the laser sight's ANGLE of alignment until it is the same as the rifle's. If you needed to sight it in and did not have a shooting range to adjust it with, you could take the gun and its sight to a room full of smoke and just change the angle of the mounted sight until the light beams match each other. When you do that, you are setting them at the same angle. Likewise, whenever you turn the knobs on a scope to adjust the point of aim of the reticle, you are actually adjusting the angle of its aim.

I like my mil/mil scope a lot, especially with the reticle in the front focal plane (this makes the subtensions on the reticle the same angular arc regardless of what magnification I'm using).

I find it a lot easier to use than using MOA and converting that to "inches at 100 yards" and then figuring out yardage to the target and multiplying "inches at 100 yards" times however many hundred yards I'm shooting ... groundhogs would die of old age before I figured out where to hold!

A handy ballistics calculator that will spit out firing solutions in mils or MOA is at:

http://appliedballisticsllc.com/ballistics/

Just input all your data and then get it to spit out a range card showing your holdover and windage values in mils and you're good to go!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackImpact

Hey guys! I have a Primary Arms 4-14x44 MIL/MIL scope on my model 11 in 308. Was wondering if anyone had some graphs/charts or advice on learning mil/mil.

This type of shooting is new to me, having a hard time grasping the concept and adjustments when using this type of measurement.

As I understand it, 1/10mil at 100 yards is .36 moa or .36 inches. So If I am off to the left and down 1 inch, I need about 3 clicks up and 3 clicks right. Does that sound about right? This is at 100 yards of course.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

**bonus questions**

Whats a good ammo to buy to keep consistency when practicing and sighting in?

How do you make sure your reticle is centered, mine seems slightly canted left but looks like its level when not looking down it

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I have a setup similar to your's. I just got this same scope mounted to my rifle last week.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...2/IMG_0978.jpg

I used the following sites to help me understand the mil-dot system.

http://mil-dot.com/

http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/index....based_reticle/

Your scope has the US Army mil dot reticle, learn the subtensions (.1 mil, .2 mil, and so on), as they will help you get more precise mil readings.

To practice, I went into my backyard and measured the sizes of different objects. I then used a laser rangefinder to find the actual distance, then used my scope to practice with the mil dots. I was able to go out to a little over 100 yards. Just be sure you use the correct formula for yards or meters. The first few times I did this, my estimations were always off my a few yards, then I realized I was using the formula for meters, and my rangefinder was in yards.