Audette Ladder....just a change of primers

Two different primers, everything else was as close to the same that I could make it. (same powder from the same lot, same batch of primers from two different manufacturers, same brass, blah, blah). I have never tried the Magtech primers before, hence the ladder.

308 Win, LC 08 brass, 180 gr Hornady HPBT Match, 43.0 to 45.0 Varget, Fed 210M primers

[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/308VargFed012610.jpg[/img]

308 Win, LC 08 brass, 180 gr Hornady HPBT Match, 43.0 to 45.0 Varget, Magtech primers

[img width=600 height=450]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dcloco/308VargMag012610.jpg[/img]

Yowie! I've seen similar stuff at my range with a couple of the old retired guys, but they were just shooting groups of 5 for comparison, not a straight ladder like that.

I distinctly remember a Swedish Mauser showing dramatically different groups with only a primer change, but that Magtech group is freaky.

Regards,
Brian in CA

Kind of weird as well. I would imagine the argument is, the Federal is not lighting the powder completely, unlike the Magtech? No proof, as I did not set up the chrono because of the wind. Chrono would have helped to tell the story.

...Primers have diff. burn rates... Sure it's going to make a diff....Never said what powder charge you used for the targets...The 210M pr. load looks low on powder..

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Originally Posted by 1Shot

...Primers have diff. burn rates... Sure it's going to make a diff....Never said what powder charge you used for the targets...The 210M pr. load looks low on powder..

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43.0 to 45.0 of Varget in 0.5 gr increments with both primers.

Posted this to give an example of why it is A - good to work up your loads, B - run an Audette Ladder, C - show the difference in changing just ONE component in the reloading process can provide

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Originally Posted by dcloco

43.0 to 45.0 of Varget in 0.5 gr increments with both primers.

Posted this to give an example of why it is A - good to work up your loads, B - run an Audette Ladder, C - show the difference in changing just ONE component in the reloading process can provide

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...If you did it right with your Audette Ladder Test both targets would show holes..lol..The only diff. would have been the powder charge diff between the 2 of them...Then you can show how much prs. make a diff..

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...If you did it right with your Audette Ladder Test both targets would show holes
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??? I'm sure you didn't mean this the way it sounds, what I saw represented exactly what I'd expect from a ladder test (as opposed to the OCW method). You're surely not intending to imply a failure of method?

Regards,
Brian in CA

There is a post either on here or at optics talk that is from the owner of Berger Bullets where he says that all American made primers are the same where accuracy is concerned.
Personally I have to disagree for rifle and pistol I always use CCI primers but with this so called shortage or glut I ran out of the small rifle and was only able to get Remington 71/2 and had to buy 1000. Long story short that was the only change in the load and both of my 223's opened up group wise and needed to be resighted in and loads had to be adjusted, got to the point where I just put them away and am still waiting on a back order for the CCI'S.

So, if i'm understanding correctly. Those are one round at each powder level( 1 at 43, 1 at 43.5 thru 45) for each target? If so, then that is quite different then anything i've seen. I don't know if that's a plus for the magtech's or a minus for federal, or something else all together. It's kinda impressive.

I did not see it so I want to ask-at what distance was this test conducted?

I've heard that the ladder test is best done at longer distances such as 200 yards, or more.

Now that you can clearly see that the Magtech primers seem to be more accurate, how will you proceed with further testing?

I see that shots #4 & 5 seem to be same hole accuracy, are you going to start at those numbers and then increase/decrease in .2 grain increments looking for the best load from there? Inquiring minds want to know.

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Originally Posted by dcloco

Kind of weird as well. I would imagine the argument is, the Federal is not lighting the powder completely, unlike the Magtech? No proof, as I did not set up the chrono because of the wind. Chrono would have helped to tell the story.

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I would think the opposite. It looks like the magtech primers ignited about the same amount of powder each time. The federals seem to have ignited every bit of each charge, hence the increased POI with each charge increase.

I did a similar test using identical charge weights and found that the Fed GMM small rifle primers consistently shot well inside of the CCI BR4's. The Rem 7 1/2's shot better than the BR4's also. This test was done with a 6x47 Lapua using RE-17. My 204 shoots great using the BR4's with BL-C(2).

To really interpet this data, personally, I need a chronograph.

Stretching the distance to 200 or 300 yards would tell more about accuracy for the bullet/powder/case/primers, but still won't tell the whole story.

River Grant got it....the Federal primers, judging ONLY by the groups, indicate exactly what a normal ladder will suggest. Smallest amount of powder should be low, with each heavier load moving the point of impact up (at least to a point, where you should reach an optimum group of barrel harmonics, etc).

This really proved nothing to me, but, did want to show what a "ladder" can and should do.

Looking at each target, for this barrel, for accuracy, with Varget and the Magtech primer....fill the case to 43.5 to 45.0 grains of powder and start shooting groups at 100 yards.

The outside temp was 12 degrees with an easy 15 to 20 mph wind, so, will not be doing any true load developments until the wind calms down. At that time, I would stretch things to 200 or 300, and call this the "WINTER" accuracy load.

During summer, I would work up another load with the ambient temp in the mid to high 80's.

For a hunting load, work up a load in the high 20's or 30's and call it a day.

Temperature will be the item that is the wildcard in loads (besides wind, of course).

I did the OCW thing a while ago but this ladder is much more simple. I think I'm gonna give it a try, heck, I could do it in less than 10 rounds. 300 yards on a calm day would tell a lot.