116 .30-06 allover the paper?!?

First off thank you to the hosts of this site! I have been looking for a Savage site for a while.

Now down to brass tacks: I am having issues, and not the medical kind! I have had my 116/16 .30-06 out to the range twice with terrible results (2 broken target holders :() I purchased my Savage as a long range hunter package with the nikon scope. Not the way I wanted it but the price was right andI have been really happy with my other Nikon Products.

Now I am admittidly not the best shot with any rifle, but at 100yrds from a lead sled I am all over the paper (best group of 3 2.5"!)

Now the questions:
What loads are you getting the best results with? I have tried a lot of different ammo (Hornedy, Win BST, Win silverbox, 150, 165, 180 gr etc) all with ok at best results. someone told me to go with good ol Cok Lokt...I am sick of wasting $ at the range.

Any thoughts why I am all over? I have checked all the screws, they are tight.
I am considering switching to a Game Reaper Scope mount. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance, I am planning on going out again Thursday, I am hoping to get better results.
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

You said you checked the screws, but I was out at the range, and a man was "all over," with 6" groups, and his scope was tight, but his action screws were one full turn loose. Take the action and barrel out of the stock, and make sure there is full contact with the recoil lug at the front of the receiver. If you never shoot really small groups, get someone at the range to shoot the rifle for you (someone good). That will determine whether it's you or not. Get a gunsmith to check the barrel, and make sure there is not a bulge, which can occur if it is fired with a cleaning patch in the barrel. I had a new rifle that I sent back to Savage, and the barrel was bent. Savage replaced it, and now it shoots 0.38". I had another brand of rifle that came from the factory with a bulge in the barrel. Same treatment fixed that one, too. (New barrel.) Of course, you should put a different scope on it, too, to make sure that one is not damaged.
Jim

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Originally Posted by spydermn

First off thank you to the hosts of this site! I have been looking for a Savage site for a while.

Now down to brass tacks: I am having issues, and not the medical kind! I have had my 116/16 .30-06 out to the range twice with terrible results (2 broken target holders :() I purchased my Savage as a long range hunter package with the nikon scope. Not the way I wanted it but the price was right andI have been really happy with my other Nikon Products.

Now I am admittidly not the best shot with any rifle, but at 100yrds from a lead sled I am all over the paper (best group of 3 2.5"!)

Now the questions:
What loads are you getting the best results with? I have tried a lot of different ammo (Hornedy, Win BST, Win silverbox, 150, 165, 180 gr etc) all with ok at best results. someone told me to go with good ol Cok Lokt...I am sick of wasting $ at the range.

Any thoughts why I am all over? I have checked all the screws, they are tight.
I am considering switching to a Game Reaper Scope mount. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance, I am planning on going out again Thursday, I am hoping to get better results.
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

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How tight is the action to the stock? My front screw on my 110 is a hair too long from what I can see.. I can wiggle the action in the stock with the screw bottomed out in the action. I get hunting accurate groups at the moment, but after deer season is over, I'm pulling the stock and replacing it, pillar and glass bedding it, re-barreling it, new recoil lug.. I'll leave teh trigger and the action as original.

In other words.. make sure your action is tight to your stock.

There's a few things to look at. The action fit maybe an issue but I'm thinking crown damage. It could also be that rarest of things, a crappy shooting savage which I'm thinking savage might help you out with given their reputation for out of the box accuracy. 2.5" minimum groups from a new rifle is unacceptable.

Didnt we just have a guy in here with a nikon on a package rifle that was all over the place. I'm suspicious of the nikons. These arent prostaff nikons.

Well some things I have done or will do:
Mount Game Reaper scope mount
Try a different scope
Try to tighten all screws, making sure they are fully seated

What is meant by pillar and glass bedding it, new recoil lug, and how can I tell if it has crown damage?
What steps can I take with savage to find out what the issue is? Do I just call them up and complain about the problems and let them fix the issues? DO they have good customer service? Will they test fire and see if it is just me being a crappy shot? I am ok if I need to learn how to shoot better (I have a ar-15 and 22 for that!) .30-06 is just to costly to learn to shoot with. Thanks for all the replys and help!!!

One other thing it could be:
If your front scope base screws are too long, they will screw down until they hit the barrel threads and then stop as if they are tight, but they will not actually be holding the base tightly.

pillar bedding is augering out the stock so that when you install some aluminum or steel pillars into the stock, the stock rests only on those pillars and nothing else. It eliminates compression of the stock and the variable pressure that added humidity and stock swelling presents.

glass bedding - its taking a glass or polymer compound and filling the voids around the stock so its not just inletted for the action, but presents an exact mirror image custom to your action. It eliminates flex in the stock and makes the action fit into the stock like a glove... perfect fit.

new recoil lug - there is a slab of steel between your barrel nut and your action.. that lug puts the recoil into the stock, and less into the action screws (which also transfer recoil into the stock). An after market one will be thicker, but also better machined and gives more compact patch to the bedding compound.

You have to inspect the crown for nicks, dings, and damage rifling at the end. The crown is literally the last millimeter of the barrel, and the last patch of barrel the bullet touches as it exits.

Ok, so I mounted the Game Reaper, checked ALL the screws, the crown and the action. I do not have another scope that I can try, but if it is still fubar I am going to stop by the LGS today and get something else just to see. Going to the range, report to follow this evening...

to check the crown, apart from a visual inspection grab a q-tip and drag it around the inside diameter of the muzzle. If it snags that's bad and you may need a re-crown.

I have the same gun in 338 WM and I cannot get good groups with factory ammo either. I can get decent groups if I load the bullets WAY out. But then they barely fit in the magazine and don't cycle well. Savage said I could send the rifle in and check the throat to see if it is within SAAMI specs. My suspicion is that the throat is too long. You may have the same problem.

What sort of rest and surface are you shooting from and does the target move while you shoot it?

Are the action screws and scope screws snug (not too tight)?

Let somebody else shoot the rifle to see if they get the same results

Check to see if the fore end is pushing against the barrel while the rifle is being fired.

Do a box test with the scope If it's not repeatable it's bad.

Mount a proven scope.

I have the same weapon. I had poor results with factory ammo as well. Certainly not what I'd heard the 116 was capable of.

To answer your question regarding ammo, I've had good luck with a hand load for deer hunting. It's a Sierra 150gr Gameking, 50.5 gr of IMR4064, WIN primer. 1.2" groups at 100 yds.

The Sierra Matchking would probably do even better, but I was looking for a hunting load.

Hope this helps,
JR

Check front pillar, it may not fit stock correctly & causing action not to tighten down to stock. I had 12 BVSS 22-250 with accuracy problems. The pillar was allowing the action to move. Punch pillar out from top, put bedding material around pillar, assemble, let cure. Rifle that was shootin 3 inch groups went to 1/2 inch.

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Originally Posted by Mach2

Didnt we just have a guy in here with a nikon on a package rifle that was all over the place. I'm suspicious of the nikons. These arent prostaff nikons.

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I have the Hunter XP with the bushnell and I'm having erratic shots. I am getting concerned after little to no improvement and now with two instances on here of shots being all over the place.

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Originally Posted by Biggred191

I have the Hunter XP with the bushnell and I'm having erratic shots. I am getting concerned after little to no improvement and now with two instances on here of shots being all over the place.

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Have you attempted messing with the action screw tension to see if that effects your groups? Different bullets? Different loads (if you're reloading)? Is your barrel floating? Do others have the same issues shooting your rifle?

Another couple basic points to check: the stock/barrel fit especially at the fore end tip, resting the gun on the very tip of the stock while bench shooting can aggravate this. Also make sure your barrel isn't touching or resting on anything while you're shooting.

As a control test, try shooting with the rifle rested on bags at its balance point. It'll be a bit of a pain but take your time and make the shots count. With the rifle rested in a thicker part of the stock you'll get to see if fore end rub-around is causing randomness.

I have a 30.06 116, shot 2.5" groups w/
Factory stock, so I put it in a choate ultimate sniper stock, game reaper mnt, Nikon buckmaster, only tried honady n some cheap rem core loc,, but same 2.5" groups. Used a good in# torque wrench 23# on scope mnt n rings, 50# on action screws.. (I've convinced myself its the muzzle brake /lack of a crown so to speak) I was thinking I would swap out the barrel for a shilen .308 , rather than remove the factory barrel and cut off the brake and recrown. But now I want to try a different scope. Thanks I had tunnel vision.