Saw this on another rifle form http://www.longrangehunting.com/arti...2-review-1.php an interesting take on switch Barrel Rifles.
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Saw this on another rifle form http://www.longrangehunting.com/arti...2-review-1.php an interesting take on switch Barrel Rifles.
so, it looks like locktight the nut to the barrel so you can take it on and off and keep the head space with out having to re-head space it each time?
Its interesting they used jb weld and a shim to lock the nut in place. But i didnt know some heat would loosen it in order to readjust headspace if needed. Pretty interesting to say the least!
Brian
Nice idea. I saw some of the earlier threads discussing this type of arrangement. I think I'd try this, it would be pretty convenient to have 2 barrels fitted to one of my actions, say a 22-250 or 243, and a 308. Nice combination, and you could record the scope adjustment between the two rounds, to easily change between the two.
For me, I could live without being able to switch every barrel between every action, for at least one rifle. From what I've read here, if you did this on a long action, you could swap out 243 to 308 to 35 Whelen, all off of the same stock and action, and feed them from the same blind magazine. One rifle, 2 extra barrels, and cover everything from varmints to bears.
Rather than JB-Welding the barrel nut... would it be feasible to insert a set screw into the side of the barrel nut, much like the one on a Redding reloading die with a small BB of lead to protect the barrel threads, and lock the barrel nut in place somewhat less permanently?
I just engrave a "witness mark" on my barrel that lines up with a similar mark on my action. I keep a single fired brass with each barrel and screw the barrel down to the brass and then align the witness marks and tighten. I swap barrels at the range all the time. My rear entry action wrench is mounted to my 2" receiver hitch. I never pull the scope. I must say I would get a lot of "what the hell are you doing" questions from the non-Savage shooters. Blows their minds. Luck, Tim
good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by hi-teck
Set screw is a good idea. When he talked about shim with JB Weld on both sides being inserted in the barrel nut: did he mean all the way around the nut of just a shim under part of it. I though about inserting epoxy with a syringe. Heat will soften the epoxy, so removal would be easy. I would want witness marks on barrel, nut and lug. I think it is a great idea and am looking for extra barrel nuts. I alread have 2 stocks dedicated to my T & T'd action, one for sporter and one for varmint/bull.
I don't quite understand Hi-Tech's remark. I think this method, with witness marks, would be just as accurate and much faster. You could go a step further and epoxy the lug to the action face and not have to worry about getting it placed wrong or having to fool with it.
Bill
...Seems like they wanted a standard "shouldered" barrel system from a non-Savage.... on a Savage.
The 'tit' on the recoil lug that engages the notch in the receiver face on most Savage rifles isn't quite the same as a 'pinned' lug on a Remington, but it goes a long ways towards simplifying the process. I'm not not sure how you could place it wrong or otherwise screw it up, short of putting it on backwards. Odds are it wouldn't fit in the bedding then, so it would be fairly apparent - and I'd bet you only do that *once* ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bsekf
I figured it is just one more thing the "old guy" can drop on the floor. Epoxy it to the action and one more loose part is alleviated.
I'm with hi teck....if I wanted an intregal recoil lug and a shouldered barrel, I build off a Mauser. ;D
Fred, have you ever converted other makes of rifles to the Savage barrel nut system? If yes, what makes and models. I would love to do that to a mauser 98 or VZ action.
El Lobo
Wait a minute.......I thought we were using Savage actions because of the floating bolt head, the inherited accuracy and the ability to change barrels easily. All we are talking about here is making it faster, repeatable and able to do it in the field. Sharpshooter, are you telling me I might just as well use a Mauser action? ???
El Lobo, Sure, it would just take a little machining, but why, Savage has already done the work. ;D
Fred,
Have you ever tried a set-screw in the barrel nut like I described? Do you see any reason it wouldn't work?
Monte
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Quote:
... if I wanted an intregal recoil lug and a shouldered barrel, I build off a Mauser.
Now, SharpShooter, you know you'd use a Ruger 77 so you could take advantage of the integral scope mounting system.
.
This sounds like creating a fixed shoulder with epoxy for head spacing /screwing barrels on and off. The has always been an option...except the shoulder may be moved.
I've chambered & fitted hundreds of barrels to actions. The problem is with wear on the threads and bearing surfaces. Depending on how often done, torque, clean threads, galling, etc....these are not new items of discussion. I like the Savage switch barrel system with barrel nut because that system is secure, and allows for minimum head space and mechanical wear.
Downside: removal from stock and scope......
Even with those downsides, I believe I'll stick to them.
I like new approaches to things and reading new ideas..... and this is one way of doing it, just not for me.
If it works...........keep it up.
taylorwkrs
Taylor makes my point, the threads wear and stretch and by using a nut it is always compensated for headspaing with a guage. The other thing is that by using a lock nut, the thread joint is more solid and rigid.
Come on guys, is it that hard to remove the stock and scope to change a barrel?
But if you can eliminate that step and have the same end result and expedite the process, why not? I think is a matter of likes/dislikes. I for one would like to try both systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter
From my professional gunsmith ( since 1974) point of view, every rifle is a switch barrel if it means just screwing on/off a barrel. Thread wear is a major factor depending on torque and looseness of the joint is not to be ignored. Other factors include receiver hardness or softness and barrel hardness, thread wear, and % of fit between the two (80% fit or less is) common. Set screws do not hold up over time for the same reasons and it will be difficult to find rifle makers using a simple screw on/ off method for practical as well as liability reasons. Another question is "same results"... verses "acceptable results."Quote:
Originally Posted by Nandy
I have set up many competition rifles, and they want the rigidity of juncture with tradeoff of scope hassle at swap time. I prefer to eliminate variables if possible........and I have the tools to do all of the above.
Barrel swapping with precision is the "holy grail" of rifle makers, and it screwing on and off is the baseline. On a professional level, this has been covered for a literal 100 years. On a hobby level, I am glad to see articles such as this because of the experimentation.
My preference is a very tight barrel/receiver juncture whether a traditional fixed shoulder or adjustable shoulder. Even so, every method has a tradeoff. Embrace your tradeoffs and enjoy the benefits!
taylorwkrs
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Quote:
Come on guys, is it that hard to remove the stock and scope to change a barrel?
Taking off a stock and a scope between each shot on top of swapping the barrel is a pain.
Out of laziness, I have been known to shoot two consecutive shots with the same barrel, but don't let that rumor get spread too far.
I know one fellow who shoots trap without changing chokes between the first shot and second shot on Doubles.
There are rumors that Elmer Keith did not even take off his 44 Magnum to go to bed. Too much effort to put it back on in the morning.
Know one couple that after their divorce continued living together because it was just too much work for one of them to move out.
Let's not under-estimate the energy savings of leaving the stock and scope on when changing barrels -- Al Gore will appreciate the impact on the world's carbon footprint.
.
Hammer, Entirely too much time on your hands. ;D
Gunsmith friend once told me he would not put an adjustable comb on my trap gun because I would be adjusting it between stations! Never though about adjusting it between shots on doubles. :-\
Great discussion. Seems like a quick painless way to swap barrels, however, when you consider thread slop and wear, I see the point. The thought of not having a "jam nut fit" entered my mind too. You would have to change scope settings too, no way 2 different barrels are going to shoot to the same POI.
I have a very nice 116 Savage action that Fred T&T'd, it seems to shoot better than my 2nd action , a Stevens. I use it in two different applications, a 6mm Rem AI with a short fat barrel that shoots one hole groups and a 7-08 sporter for deer. Two dedicated stocks, two different scopes and by pinning a barrel nut on the 7-08 this sounded like an easy way to swap barrels....fast. I use the 6mm in turkey shoots and the 7-08 for deer a day later. Gonna buy an extra barrel nut and try it. ::)
Bill
I never have to remove my scope. A modfied wrench works great!