Savage 12FV Trouble

Hey all,

I'm a new member, but longtime viewer. I'm hoping you can help me with my newly acquired problem... I bought a Savage 12FV in 223rem in July, and was TICKLED to death with the accutrigger. When it arrived I mounted a Weaver 6.5-20x44 AO using Leupold STD one piece bases and high rings. I boresighted it using a collameter and off to the range I went with Remington 55gr FMJ. It wouldn't print on a 8.5x11" sheet of paper at 25 yards! Holy smokes! I couldn't even find where the rounds were on my target holder, so I shot at a dirt embankment. it was about 16" high and 14" Left. So I took it back to my gun store (sportsmans warehouse, great guys BTW). WE (4 of us) checked, and rechecked the mounts and bases and they were tight. We did find that the scope reticle moved when the AO was dialed to 100 yards, so I scrapped the scope and went with a Nikon Buckmasters 6-18x40AO. After boresighting it with a Bushnell collameter AND a Leupold collameter, off I went to the range again... Still couldn't find a piece of paper at 25 yards using the remington 55gr FMJ or Hornady varmint 55GR factory ammo.

So I sent the rifle to Savage 2 weeks ago and they called this morning. It shot a .6" 5-shot group at their 100 yard range (during the hurricane???) and they couldn't find anything wrong with it. So its on its way back to me. My question to you, my barrel nut brethren, WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON? Is it:

Base/mounts?
Ammo (55gr should be fine in a 1:9")

My hunch is that something is up with my Leupold bases. I might end up putting on Warne rings and bases and trying it after I retry the Leupolds. But if I'm that far off, I might NEED the windage adjustment of the Leupolds!

Any advice is appreciated, and suggestions well heeded.

--Sageratslayer

Any chance you weren't on paper at 25yd because it was shooting over the target at that distance, despite the boresight? I've actually experienced that...

Was the Buckmaster mounted to the rifle when you sent it to Savage? If so, it should be nice and dialed in now... ;D

Forget about colimnators and all that other hoowey. After I have done all the things that I do to get the scope on right. I put a large round target say 20" diameter a 100 yards away, with the gun in a work vice or on a bipod for the front and sandbag for the rear I simply line up the large round target looking through the bore at 100 yards. Once I have the target centered as best I can I adjust the reticles on to the target while looking through the scope. I gets me usually with in five inches of center every time.

Charlie

Hey,

I thought of that when shooting, and tried to shoot at each corner of my target stand (36"x42"). That is when I found that it was grossly high (14") and to the left (16") I also walked the target out to 50yards and it still wasn't on paper. This was WAY out even for the Leupold mounts to compensate for...

--SRS

Did you even try to dial the scope in? I guess I am confused. You sent a rifle back to Savage because you rifle wasn't hitting where the bore-sighter predicted? I must not be reading this correctly. Maybe you left that info out.

It can shoot a .6" group and still be high and right. Id wait and see whats up before you get too excited.

Try going back to basics. Spend $10 for weaver bases and $10 for weaver rings at wally world, put a scope on the rifle that you know works good and then go back to the range. If need be go there when nobody else is there and if you still can't hit the target at 25yds, walk up to the target and shoot at 10'. If you can't hit it from there then you need to sit and figure out why. Savage has nothing to gain by sending you back a bad rifle and everything to lose. blue

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Originally Posted by Harriershot

Forget about colimnators and all that other hoowey. After I have done all the things that I do to get the scope on right. I put a large round target say 20" diameter a 100 yards away, with the gun in a work vice or on a bipod for the front and sandbag for the rear I simply line up the large round target looking through the bore at 100 yards. Once I have the target centered as best I can I adjust the reticles on to the target while looking through the scope. I gets me usually with in five inches of center every time.

Charlie

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This is what I do also.

With a 55 grain bullet, sight in about 2-2.5 inchs LOW at 25. You should be really close to the bull at 100.

Dead on @ 25 will put you dead on @ 100.

Hey,

So when I shot it with the buckmasters I saw that it wasn't within the adjustment range of the scope as it was 14" high and 16" left. I sent it back because the boresight wouldn't even place the bullets on paper at 25 yards. I strongly suspect the rings on this one. The main question is:

Why would the gun boresight perfectly with 2 boresighters, and then not even put a round on a sheet of paper?

At 25 yards the rounds should impact low, but they were 14" high. I'm sure the rifle is grouping as well as Savage stated. Just not anywhere where I can find the rounds with my scope...


SRS

Like I stated before, dead on @ 25 yds will be dead on @ 100 yds. Bullets will always cross the line of sight twice. It crosses the first time at 25 yds going up, and the second time at 100 yds going down. If it is 14" at 100 yds it is 14 m.o.a. off. This equivalates into a .020" difference in the height of the rings/bases.
Do what blue said, go back to the basics.

Hey Barrel Nut Brethren,

My rifle came back from Savage today complete with the test target. .8" group. I re mounted the scope with Weaver bases, Warne rings. When we boresighted it, the scope took about 4" of adjustment to get it on with the colimater. We checked out every screw, and torqued everything to spec with guntite. I will shoot it Sunday and let you know how it performs. I have 4 loads I will use: Remington white box 55GR FMJ, 55GR Hornady varmint, 40GR nosler handloads using 748, and 68GR Sierra Match Kings over TAC.

If it doesn't shoot after this, I am at the end of my rope!

--SRS

Hopefully it still won't shoot well. In which case I'll make an exception and do you a favor, taking it off your hands. Hell - I'll even offer you $200 for it too (since it doesn't shoot - this is a very generous offer!).
;D

So you didn't send the rifle with the scope mounted??, you should have unless Savage won't receive them that way.
Also your post sounded like you sent it in twice, it was a bit confusing...
Curt

I've been using a laser bore sighter (at night of course) and can dial in a scope to be just about dead on at 100 yards with it. You may want to consider purchasing one to see where your problem lies.

I had a person show up at the range with his 223 9 twist Savage and all I heard was his dissappointments!!!

I looked at his target and he had about a 12" group at 100yds. I think I could have bought the gun for $100 that day.

I asked him if "I" could try it out. Two conditions: let me put my scope on and I will shoot my 52gr ammo!

I took the bolt out and looked through the barrel at the target red dot. I lined up my scope.

I shot three shots, six inch right and about the same low, and I was having trouble seeing where I hit, this is still with the owner #$%^&%$.

We walked down to the target and the three shots I made cloverleaf'd! The owner thought I was tricking him some how!

It's a great gun, but find the bullet it likes!

Put it 1/2" high @ 25yds (assuming you are shootingbugholes @ 25), then start shooting @ 100yds.

Closeup of a 1/4" diamond shooting factory Black Hills 52grns (my 223), your gun should do this!

PS: I don't trust bore sighting, I have never found boresighting accurate.

[img width=600 height=450]http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae56/Dennis4437/DSC09265.jpg[/img]

I managed to run away from work a bit early and squeeze off some rounds before heading to the Duck game. Here's what happened:

I fired 4 rounds of hornady 55gr. Not even on paper. any of the 3 papers I stapled up.

So I sighted in on an clay pigeon placed on the 100 yard berm and fired with the 55gr. After a few scope adjustments, I tried it on paper again. Nothing.

At this point my blood was boiling, so I figured "why not shoot the 40gr nosler hand loads with win748? I have nothing to lose!"

I fired a .35" 3 shot group 4 inches to the left and one inch low!!!!!!! After adjusting the scope over and up, I shot 3 more groups under .5" CTC with the hand loads. Now we're in business!!!!

After I did that I tried the 55gr again to see if they grouped. Couldn't find them on paper. But I won't lick a gift horse in the mouth with the 40gr (the rounds I wanted to use anyways...). I will test further tomorrow with more Nosler 40gr, but I feel confident that it is dialed in with the load I originally wanted.

-SRS

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I fired a .35" 3 shot group 4 inches to the left and one inch low!!!!!!! After adjusting the scope over and up, I shot 3 more groups under .5" CTC with the hand loads. Now we're in business!!!!

After I did that I tried the 55gr again to see if they grouped. Couldn't find them on paper.

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Glad to hear this, I kinda thought if you played with the loads you would find your sweet spot! You might try the 52grns also! It seems the 223 is very picky and some loads won't work!

What 55's are you using?

Hey,

I'm using Remington white box FMJ and Hornady varmint express Vmax. I just can't fathom why it would shoot under .5 groups with 40gr and won't hit paper with 55gr. The rifle is a 1:9" twist. Unless they changed the manual and I have a 1:12 or 1:14. It just seems strange...

--SRS

You might even try something heavier than 55grn just to see how it shoots, I just finished shooting my 6.5x47L and I had it shooting bugholes with 140grn A-Max's and couldn't get better than a 2" group with 139 Lapua Scenars!!!!!

Help me figure this one out!

Well,

I just got back from the range. It shot 3 more groups that were easily under an inch. I calipered one at .46". I think the only thing holding it back is the nut behind the trigger! I loaded up 50 more nosler 40gr with win748 and I will head out sometime next weekend to get more familiar with it. I declare: Case solved!

--SRS