Shoul I clean it?

I got this hunting stick model 111 I bought 5 years ago in 270 WIN, its very accurate and many deer tags got field using this one. I just took it to the rifle range to test my new loads for upcoming season.
I fired 20 rounds total and here is what barrel look like and it was clean prior. This rifle probably seen 1000 maybe more rounds down its tube, its been a while I lost count. So should I even bother to clean this?

[img width=473 height=450]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2489/sav111bar1.jpg[/img]

Have your groups opened up? If not, don't clean it.

I don't worry about cleaning until my barrel tells me to clean it.

well first groups were very good 0.467" , but last groups about an inch. This is not target rifle I only do one shot, never had to fire second.

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Originally Posted by jinx-)

well first groups were very good 0.467" , but last groups about an inch. This is not target rifle I only do one shot, never had to fire second.

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groups coulda also opened up due to barrel heat since it is a sporter barrel. Or I guess the 1000+ previous rounds coulda had something to do with it...LOL

YES...clean it. If you don't keep on top of the copper, the copper WILL win.

I was trying to get 150 gr Nosler BT to fly faster out of it, also I was upping my 140 gr SGK load, not sure which load left all that copper, but it was all around that barrel as far as I can see. Took like 4 hours and many patches with KG-12 and brush to get it out.

My factory barrel take more than 20 rounds to get the groups to tighten up. Copper in a factory barrel is not necessarily a bad thing unless you are experiencing accuracy problems.

Was the "about an inch" load the same load as the 0.467" load? Was the barrel the same temp for both?

I would suspect it has more to do with load and conditions that 20 rounds of copper.

First loads I shot were 150 Nosler BT, I didn't want to mix copper jackets and the last one I shot was 140gr SGK which in my previous test week earlier it grouped 0.263" @ 100 from the clean barrel. I only add half grain to the load from 52.5 to 53.0 of RL-17. After I fire one group I usually set rifle vertically to get draft through the bore and it stays that way until I feel its normal temperature, meanwhile I was shooting my LRPV.

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Originally Posted by jinx-)

First loads I shot were 150 Nosler BT, I didn't want to mix copper jackets and the last one I shot was 140gr SGK which in my previous test week earlier it grouped 0.263" @ 100 from the clean barrel. I only add half grain to the load from 52.5 to 53.0 of RL-17. After I fire one group I usually set rifle vertically to get draft through the bore and it stays that way until I feel its normal temperature, meanwhile I was shooting my LRPV.

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Jinx if i am reading this right you changed the load so that could be where your larger groups came from and not a dirty barrel. I agree keep on top of the copper but don't blame the copper for a larger group when you change the load.

Gary

Hi Gary, next time I will try same load from clean barrel, maybe I'll get better grouping, if not I'll reduce my load.

I clean my rifles after every shooting session but, I shot ground hogs with a guy quite a few years ago, that never used anything on his bore but #9 and a swab. Granted he was not shooting a hyper-velocity round, he was shooting a 250 Savage with below max handloads, but in the 4 or 5 years I shot with him he never cleaned the copper fouling from his bore. This man was an incredible shot and his rifle never failed to perform out to 400+. I know that at some point it was going to be a problem but with well over 2000 rounds through it, that rifle was deadly accurate.

I Just Got done taking care of a friends blazer R93 that is topped with a Swarovski Z6, this gun is so accurate its almost scary. Well my friend was getting ready for a month long safari in south Africa, the blazer really started shooting bad. At 518 yards he was 4ft low and 5 feet right. Needless to say he was FREAKING out cause his trip was a week away. He was saying the scope must be bad and was ready to run out and buy a new one. I ended up bringing the gun home with me and taking a look at it. first thing I do with any rifle I bring Home to" look at" Is scrub it clean. this rifle has had about 300 rounds fired thru it. It took me almost 6 hours and countless patches to get this gun clean. powder/ copper all. I then Proceded to take this gun out and shoot it and low and behold it was shooting like it used to, even to the point of breaking a bottle at 663 yards the 1st shot. I found out he had been using a bore snake to clean this rifle. some one had told him that is all he needed to do. he didn't use any solvent or anything just pulled a dry snake thru the bore. His trip is over and 26 trophies later, and having the PH tell him that he was the best shot he had seen in years, Well that just goes to show ya that a properly cleaned rifle can and should do, and how badly a dirty barrel can and will effect accuracy

Clean the barrel with foam bore cleaner, no bore brush, no scrubbing and very few passes with a cleaning rod.

Below a .303 British Enfield with a frosted bore after firing 50 rounds and one shot of foam bore cleaner. If the copper is not removed corrosion can occur under the copper and cause pitting, keep it clean and let the foam do all the work by letting it sit over night.

[img width=424 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP5065.jpg[/img]

I use KG-12, which basically dissolve penny's over night, if you roll bullet in cotton patch and add KG-12, 12 hours later jacket will be gone, haven't seen anything else do this.

http://www.laniganperformance.com/kg12testresults.html

Was talking an ex-Olympic shooting coach while renewing my CCL awhile back. Started talking about gun cleaning, according to him, the Olympic shooters don't clean their rifles after each event. I figured they cleaned them religiously but instead, they don't clean them until accuracy starts to suffer. . . Also, that more guns are ruined by people disassembling for cleaning then buy actually wearing out. I found the discussion very interesting.

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Originally Posted by tuit

Was talking an ex-Olympic shooting coach while renewing my CCL awhile back. Started talking about gun cleaning, according to him, the Olympic shooters don't clean their rifles after each event. I figured they cleaned them religiously but instead, they don't clean them until accuracy starts to suffer. . . Also, that more guns are ruined by people disassembling for cleaning then buy actually wearing out. I found the discussion very interesting.

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Cleaning is over rated- and most guys do it too often which can cause problems. tuit is right on the money!