I have almost run out of Srp for my 6.5cm load. I am using cci BR4 on it, I have cci 500 SPP can I substitute these in my 6.5 CM load???? TIA, Kevin
Printable View
I have almost run out of Srp for my 6.5cm load. I am using cci BR4 on it, I have cci 500 SPP can I substitute these in my 6.5 CM load???? TIA, Kevin
"NO" !!!! You risk the primer being pierced from the much higher pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev1Doggy
Not a wise idea.
Everything I have read says the small pistol primers have thinner "cups" to allow pistols to set off the primers, and they can not handle the pressure that rifle calibers produce.
I've done quite a bit of research going the other direction, SRP for SPP, and what you wrote is exactly what I found.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns
And in another forum I visit there are a bunch of folks using SPP primers in their AR's without problems. I would also add a caution. Lots of folks comment that some brands of primer are 'weaker' than others. And, just because one person uses a SPP in their rifle does not mean that you could.
I was wondering how long it would take the opposite version of this question to get posted here. I know somebody that has used SR for SP for light load .38's with TrailBoss. And this was before our primer pandemic of 2020.
CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0
Handgun primers have thinner cups than rifle primers, making them easier to ignite with the typically weaker firing pin fall of handguns. Small Pistol primer cups are .017" thick, while Large Pistol primer cups are .020" thick. This is the reason using handgun primers in .22 Hornet rifle loads sometimes results in pierced primers in some guns. Obviously their substitution in the high pressure .223 Remington would not be a good idea.
With Remington small rifle primers, the 6 ½ primer has a thin cup and is not recommended for higher pressure rounds like the common .223 Remington. It was intended for the .22 Hornet. When Remington introduced their .17 Remington round in 1971 they found that the 6 ½ primer was not suitable to the high-pressure .17. The 7 ½ BR primer was developed for this reason. According to Remington, the 7 ½ has a 25% greater cup thickness and they state on their web site: "In rifle cartridges, the 6-1/2 small rifle primer should not be used in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington or the 223 Remington. The 7-1/2 BR is the proper small rifle primer for these rounds."
Small Rifle Standard
CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page
CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker .025" cup.
Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm. .0225" cup thickness.
Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version.
Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025" cup.
RWS 4033
Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021". Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.
Small Rifle Magnum
CCI 450 - same thicker .025" cup as the BR4 and #41.
CCI #41 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more 'distance' between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other CCI SR primers. .025" thick cup. Same primer mix as CCI 450.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify this primer as a Magnum, differing from other sources that classify it as a Standard. .025" cup thickness.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle Magnum SRM - hard, less sensitive brass cup intended for AR15/military rifle and high pressure rounds - #KVВ-5,56M.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle 223 SR223 - #KVB-223M "This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite."
NOTE 1: According to Speer/CCI Technical Services - Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size. Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness. Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound. They can be used interchangeably.
https://i.imgur.com/QJM65zp.png
Below a CCI 400 primer with a .020 cup fired in a AR15 rifle.
https://i.imgur.com/FP14bKZ.jpg
NOTE, my comment, the entire time Remington ran Lake City Army Ammunition Plant the Remington 7 1/2 primer was used in all 5.56 ammunition with a .025 cup thickness.
I would contend they were shooting 9mm pistol barrels or neverQuote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
advanced beyond 8th grade !!
Yawn.
SMH. Play stupid games......Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuj'
My best loads in the 6.5 Creedmoor with SRP brass and H4350 is: Rem 7 1/2's(139 scenars) and BR4's(142 SMK's)
BigEd your post above is one of the ones I found during my research and printed for future reference. :thumb:
Nice post Bigedp51!Quote:
Originally Posted by bigedp51
Shooting cast bullets you can run the sp primers. Unless you are using data you came up with. Most cast bullet loads are under the 40k psi limit of sp primers. I run lp in my Mosin with cast bullets. My SD is 4 with them. With lr it is 17. That is a 215gr bullet with 21gr 5744. The firing pin protrusion is the same as what the rifle came with. Never have there been any blanked primers.
It is all about the pressure you run your loads at. If you don't know what you are doing then stick to the loading books.
Interesting. I have never heard of this. I have been using CCI 400's exclusively in all my 223/5.56 AR15 loads. I have shot tons (hundreds, if not close to 1k) of rounds with out ever having a issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigedp51
While I do not load to max pressures, I do not load them light.
Another interesting statement. If that is true, then why box and market them separately. Why not just put on the package "small primers for use in small pistol magnum, or small rifle use"Quote:
Originally Posted by bigedp51