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I just watched a few You Tube videos previewing the new Bronco lineup including all the various models and options.
Having owned a few Jeeps until very recently, ive always been partial to them. But after seeing these videos id say Jeep should be worried about how they will affect their sales.
Been watching the build of a real 70ish Bronco on Off the Ranch on u-tube
Yes i enjoy watching those also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Balljoint
I owned some of those now classic vehicles when they were new.
The only thing better about them is the nostalgia factor.
But that soon leaves after driving the new ones.
Ford has not built a real bronco since 1977. Real broncos were made between 66 and 77.
The 78-79 fullsize "bronco" was not bad, probably because they were based off the best looking ford truck ever made (78-79), with the 77 and older being 2nd in line. Anything made by ford after 79 sucks in my opinion.
The new one looks like a copy of that crappy toyota fj.
Not worried about jeep sales, as for me, they have not built anything good since 1995. The 97-06 tj's are ok, but anything after that I do not care for at all.
Fyi, the one of off the ranch is a 80's model, not 70's.
I've been following the news on the new Bronco pretty closely for about a year or so as I was always a huge fan of the 66-77 Bronco's. For the most part I think Ford did a great job on the overall design of this new one, but I'm still not to thrilled about the engine choices and the trims and available options are a bit odd to say the least. For example...
- Ford really touted the 7-speed manual with crawler gear (6.588:1) and it's offering almost 95:1 low range reduction with the advanced t-case and 4.70:1 axle gear ratio. Problem is the only way you can get a manual transmission with the advanced t-case is to order the Badlands trim level with a 4-banger.
- Two t-cases are offered, the standard that has three manually selectable drive modes (2H, 4H and 4L) and the advanced which has four selectable drive modes (2H, 4H, 4L and Auto). The standard has a low range of 2.72:1 while the advanced has a low ratio of 3.06:1.
- A lot of folks are hung up on the fact the new Bronco has independent front suspension (IFS), but considering how it's configured I don't see it as a problem and IFS offers a much better on-road manners than a solid axle (no death wobble!) Let's face it, for 95% of the people who buy one the furthest off-road they will get will be driving down a gravel driveway.
- One thing to note is that there are two different front axles offered in the new Bronco depending on trim level. The standard front axle is the Dana M190 AvanTEK which is the equivalent of the Dana 35 in terms of size and strength. The beefier front axle that comes standard on the higher trim levels or with the Sasquatch package is the Dana M210 AvanTEK which is the equivalent of a Dana 44.
- Rear axle is a Dana M220 AvanTEK on all trims that's the equivalent of a Dana 44.
- Several days after launch Ford says you can't order the Sasquatch package with a manual transmission. This after a manual transmission yellow 2dr. was featured in all of the launch videos is depicted with what appeared to be the Sasquatch package. Mind you the Sasquatch package is the off-road package for the Bronco (long travel suspension, Bilstien shocks, front & rear electronic lockers, advanced t-case with lower low range ratio, etc) and is what REALLY sets the Bronco apart from the Wrangler's Rubicon package as you can get Sasquatch on all trim levels. (Note: Ford has stated they're open to the possibility of offering the manual with Sasquatch if there's enough interest and several petitions have been setup and people have been flooding Ford's N. America Communication Manager's [Mark Levine] social media pages begging for it.)
- Ford also came out after the launch and noted you can't get the manual transmission with the 2.7L V6 engine option. Most speculate this is due to the fact that the Getrag transmission is rated to 406ft-lbs of torque and the 2.7L is estimated to put out 400ft-lbs. After Fords class action lawsuit troubles with the Mustang's manual transmission this was probably a smart choice on their part. Then again, this is an all new transmission designed specifically for the Bronco - so why not design it to handle to torque of both engines that will be used in the platform?
- Base model comes with carpet and cloth seats, and to get marine grade vinyl seats and rubber floormats with drain holes (aka washout interior) you have to step up to the Black Diamond or Badlands trim. No indication yet if there will be an carpet delete or vinyl seat options to get the washout interior on a base model.
- Rear seats don't fold down quite flat, with the front edge being about 4" above the level of the package tray when folded. This to me is just poor/lazy/uncoordinated design on Ford's part. Heck, even the rear seat in the 1982 Chevy Chevette my mom had back in the early 80's had back seats that actually folded flat and that was about as cheap a car as you could get back then.
- Size of the new Bronco in the videos is a little deceiving as it looks very small. Comparing the new 2-door dimensions with the previous 5 generations of Bronco's, you can see it's pretty close to the 78-79 Gen 2 Bronco.
Attachment 7338
What I think Ford did get right though are the styling, easily removable top and doors, and the Sasquatch package being available on all trim levels (so long as you want an auto trans). The doors don't have upper window frames like the Jeep's making them a little lighter and much easier for one person to handle. Like the Wrangler, the Bronco will feature a 3 or 4 piece hardtop depending on # of doors, with the front section above the driver and passenger seats being two pieces (though I do believe their is a 1-pc option for the front section as well).
As noted earlier the biggest thing I think Ford did right was 1) coming up with the Sasquatch package, and 2) choosing to offer it on all trim levels - including the base model. This package basically gets you everything that you'd get with the Rubicon trim level on a Wrangler which is Jeep's top trim level and pretty pricey. So with the Bronco you can get all that off-road capability even in a base model (so long as it's an automatic at this point).
A great many ponied up the $100 to reserve their Bronco on launch night planning to get a base model with V6, manual transmission and the Sasquatch package, but as I've noted Ford has since squashed the Sasquatch package option with the manual transmission. Needless to say this has made a LOT of people mad. You can basically blame it on the bean counters as I'm sure they looked at Wrangler sales numbers with a manual transmissions when deciding not to offer that combination. However, the Wrangler manual doesn't have the 7th crawler gear the Bronco manual does which makes it very appealing to those wanting to do more serious off-roading (rock crawling) with the Bronco.
Most are speculating the Sasquatch package will run around $5-6k, while the upgrade to the 2.7L v6 will probably run around $800-1000 and the 10spd auto coming in at about $1200-1500. Figuring a base price of $30,000 on the base 2dr model, that jacks the price up to around $38.5k. Think about that for a moment though - $38.5k for a Bronco that has all the off-road goodies you need (F/R E-lockers, low gearing, long-travel suspension, 35" tires) for a serious off-road rig. That's a good $8,000 less than a similarly equipped 2dr Wrangler Rubicon rolling on 33" tires.
Some trim level/package details for those interested:
Attachment 7339
Attachment 7340
Attachment 7341
Attachment 7342
Attachment 7343
Biggest question I have at this point, and can't get an answer to, is whether or not a 55" long Pelican hard gun case will fit in the back of a 2-door with the rear seat folded down.
Can't have a new Bronco thread without a video or two...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pogURuysz1I&t=3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n7Kou6LmvU
Youve obviously been doing a considerable amount of research, ive simply been watching various videos.
I recently sold my 06 Wrangler unlimited Rubicon after owning it for about 10 years.
That was my first Jeep with an automatic transmission, and even for off road which i did alot of, it was by far better than standard shift in my opinion.
With lockers engaged in 4 wheel low range it couldnt get any better.
I still do like the smaller body size of the older jeeps for off road compared to the new models.
My son has a 4 door Wrangler which ive driven alot. Overall it is a nicer vehicle than i had for every day use.
And thats exactly how most of them are used. Nothing more than expensive Yuppy wagons all decked out with no place to go.
I would rather them just offer a basic model and add the upgrades you want.
I assume the vinyl floor with drains in lieu of carpet is something like a Rhino liner application, which i would prefer.
From the overall size, the new Bronco is very close to Jeep dimensions as your information shows.
As for long barreled guns in smaller vehicles, the hard cases tend to complicate the issue even more.
I always removed the back seat completly, then built a wood box which held 2 guns in good heavy soft cases and allowed the barrels to ride above the console between the seats. In my old CJ 7 the 36” barrels just about touched the dashboard. You can load alot of stuff in a Jeep if its organized well.
But as for the Bronco, i personally feel it will put a hurt on Jeep sales.
I think the new Jeep pickup qualifies as a monster, something the size of the old Ford Ranger or Chevy S10 would have been better in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
That is pretty much what 99% of the wranglers sold today are.
People got tired of the over done lowrider and ricer cars from back in the day where is was a competition to see who could bolt the most stuff onto a honda civic. They wanted something different.
Now they have switched to the current wranglers. They have turned into nothing more than glorified ricers. They are just taller with bigger tires. All they do is try and see who can bolt on the most pointless aftermarket crap they can. Angry grilles, fenders, fender flares, hoods, door and body kits, and every type of doodad they can find. Then they add a lift with big wheels and low profile all terrain tires and then drive around the city showing it off. They drive around a gravel parking lot and call it wheeling. They never take them to actual off road trails because they do not want to get them dirty or damage any of their bolt on doodads or scratch their wheels.
I have a feeling the new bronco may go the same way. There will be a few people actually use them offroad like designed (like some some jeep owners) but I feel the majority of them will be like my above mentioned jeeps. You can not deny it will not happen.
As far as putting a hurting on jeep sales. I say good. Everyone needs competition, no one can stay on top forever. Competition breeds innovation.
Admittedly an auto is easier to drive in the tight stuff off-road (three pedal shuffle), but with the ultra-low crawler gear it's much, much easier. The big upsides of the manual are 1) cheaper entry price, 2) cheaper long-term maintenance costs, 3) no electronics to worry about, 4) no overheating worries under hard use, and 5) it doubles as an anti-millennial theft device.
Getting one of today's electronically controlled automatic transmissions rebuilt can easily cost you $2,500-3,000. With a manual you basically have three wear components that might need replaced over the years: clutch, throw-out bearing and the slave cylinder.
I really miss the days when a Base model was truly a base model. Not only has the government mandated all new vehicles have a bunch of electronic safety stuff, but the manufacturers then go further with even more electronic junk. The various drive modes for different terrains are a perfect example. I could see maybe just standard and eco modes for economy when traveling longer distances, but the rest are a bit pointless. Ditto with the other autonomous safety features (auto adjusting cruise control, auto braking, etc). How about we start focusing on making drivers smarter rather than the vehicles.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns
Well with the bulk of all the sales being what they are, they need to dummy proof them as much as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Baker
I sat at a traffic light here in Vero Beach Florida recently and counted 5 of the new model 4 door Jeeps sitting there at the same time.
I doubt if any of them will ever see a mud puddle, let alone some bad terrain.
As for things like cruise control, i never use it and i also think it causes problems on our highways.
Not hard to pick out the cruisers when traveling.
I don't have an issue with cruise control itself, just don't see the need for this new generation of cruise control that will automatically adjust the speed to maintain a certain distance behind the vehicle in front of you. I mean really, how lazy does one have to be to find tapping the decel button a time or two too troublesome or inconvenient? All this "tech" does is encourage drivers to be even more inattentive to the road and their surroundings while driving.
Thats the entire problem even with the basic type, people set the thing at or slightly above the speed limit and park themselves in the left lane.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Baker
We all know how truckers drive, give it hell downhill to save downshifting on the uphill. But theres cruiser Bob doing his thing, oblivious to what others are trying to do. Cops should write tickets for left lane drivers using cruise control. Especially on vehicles like jeeps, it should be a special order option
and not just included along with other things you might order. Same with the floor covering, rubber floor covering should be standard in all trucks and off road vehicles, carpet should be an upgrade for those who want it. I drive a Chevy pickup work truck model because thats the only way to get rubber floor covering. But since i wanted power windows and door locks i needed to take cruise control also. A work truck with cruise control makes a lot of sense.
Funny thing is that the sales person thought it did, but couldnt understand the rubber floor covering.
Few recent videos of Ford doing some durability testing of the new Bronco on the Rubicon Trail and in Moab.
First on the Rubiocon...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTIGnSFvlQo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQJyJnh0vmU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5nyyBpym0Y
I want one!! They are really beyond cool!! The fully loaded one's are expensive as all get out.....but the options on it are very well thought out. But alas, I can't live without my F-150 and the Mrs' would likely kill me if I drove another one of these home.
I'll have one....one day. Will probably be at least 5-6 years down the road minimum, or at least until my current truck takes a crap or the northern Ohio winter's make it more rust than metal. Gotta love living in the rust belt (not!).
Some of that can be attributed to (built in obsolesence). And it was much worse back in the 60s and 70s than it is today. Probably due to more foreign competition, including in the steel industry. I bought a new Chevy suburban in 1972 and within 2 years the rocker panels had rusted thru. I bought another new one in 77 and that was even worse. It even rusted thru above the rear side windows at the roof level. The salty winter roads in Pa didnt cause that, the care less attitude of GM did. At that point they were the worlds most profitable corporation, much of that no doubt as a result of selling replacement body parts made from junk.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Baker
But as for the new Bronco, i dont see how it can miss being very successful.
I want one of these...https://st.motortrend.com/uploads/si...-motion-16.jpg
The way things appear to be headed we all might need one of those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
Precisely, Dual Purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
So do I, but only if you're paying to fill it up every other day for me. lol
BTW, some options pricing on the new Bronco has been released...
Base
2.3L with 10 speed - $1600
2.7L with 10 speed - $3500
Sasquatch Package - $5000
Molded Hard Top in carbonized grey - $700
Towing Package - $600
Roof Rack Package - $400
Modular Front Bumper - $800
Big Bend
2.3L Auto - $1600
2.7L & Auto - $3500
Mid Package - $1600
Sasquatch - $5000
Modular Hardtop Black - $1900
Tow Package - $600
Roof Rack - $400
Modular Front Bumper - $800
Black Diamond
2.3L with 10 speed - $1600
2.7L with 10 speed - $3500
Mid Package - $1500
Hard Top Molded in Carbonized Grey: $700
Towing Package with 2" receiver: $600
Roof Rack with Rails and Crossbars: $400
Outerbanks
2.7L engine - $1600
High package - $1200
Lux package - $3500
Sasquatch package - $5000
Molded top - $700
Modular top -$1900
Molded and soft - $3700
Towing package - $600
Roof rack with rails and crossbars - $400
Modular front bumper - 800
Badlands
2.3L EcoBoost 10 Speed Auto - $1,600
2.7L EcoBoost 10 Speed Auto - $3,500
Mid Package - $1500
High Package - $2,700
Lux Package - $5000
Sasquatch Package - $2,500
Hard Top Molded in Carbonized Grey - $700
Hard Top Molded in Shadow Black With Removable Glass - $1,900
Hard Top Molded in Carbonized Grey with Soft Top - $3,700
Towing Package with 2" receiver - $600
Roof Rack with Rails and Crossbars- $400
Wildtrack
Mid Package - Included
High Package - $1,200
Lux Package - $3,500
Sasquatch Package - Included
Modular Hard Top - Included
Modular Hard Top + Soft Top - $1,200
Towing Package - $600
Roof Rack Package - $400
Modular Front Bumper - $800