i just picked up a box of the 208gr ELD Match bullets for my 300 winmag. I'm currious if anyone has tried these bullets yet and if so any suggestions on load data. I havent been able to find much on these, most of what i have found has been for the 212gr ELD-X hunting bullet.I would like to try the ELD-X but finding them right now has been a little tough. thanks
I have not, I've been playing around with the 200 ELD-X but if I were you I'd probably use 208 Amax load data. I know that H100 is popular for it, around 77 grains
Thanks Londerko I was thinking the same thing. I have a pretty good load worked up for the 208 AMAX so I will give that a try. I will start low and work my way up watching for pressure signs along the way.
Use the regular 208 load data. It has been a few weeks since I looked at those bullets, but here is the *gist*.
If you look at the A-max line in general, they are an old design in terms of shape. The 208 A-max being an exception, that is, relatively speaking, a "new" design. So if you look at the BC difference between it, and the new line there is very little difference. I posted a chart and such on another board, but the 208 A-max is a current enough design(aerodynamically speaking) that when using Litz tested G7 numbers against the new bullets G7, there is extremely little difference fired hot from a 300WM. The drag curves "track" amazingly consistently between the two. Whereas other older designs don't.
I have a suspicion that the hype over the tips is mostly marketing. Finally using an appropriate drag model rather than a single G1 coupled with a redesign of shapes, I suspect is where the bulk of the improvement comes from.
As far as any bearing surface difference, the amounts are minor. From doing pressure testing this summer/fall with many "super-slick" bullets, Vs. hunting and other match types; the reveal was that any "magical" claims about slick bullets being able to be push significantly quicker without additional pressures, was false.
I am very interested in the performance of the ELD-X on game. Let us know what you find. A couple friends cautioned me that they open pretty quickly.
yep, use the same load data for the 208's. start low and work up.
Bruce
Thanks guys I appreciate the help
You fellas must be friends with the dock manager at Hornady. I've been on the back order list at Midway forever on a box.
Dying to give these a shot past 1k yds
Midway is currently showing them as "available". Was about to purchase a box last night, so I guess thats not true?Quote:
Originally Posted by gbflyer
Nope, I avoid Potterfield like the plague. Precision reloading had them very early.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbflyer
I picked up a couple boxes of the 200 XLD's when midway notified me they were in. Got lucky again on the 208 XLD-M and ordered 2 boxes. In route now. Will be trying these in my Savage 10T 308 this spring. Would be shooting now but to cold out.
I emailed Hornady the other day and this is what they replied. Thank you for your email. Our SKU#30732 30cal 208gr Amax bullet is being replaced with our New SKU#30731 30cal 208gr ELD-Match bullet.
At this time we are anticipating that the New ELD-Match would use the same reloading data as the Amax bullet.
If you have any further questions please call our Technical Staff at 1-800-338-3220.
Thank you again.
Hornady Sales Team
Phone 1-800-338-3220
So it sounds to me like they are replacing the 208 AMAX with the 208 ELDM. This may be common knowledge, but it is news to me.
Makes sense, as they are making some pretty serious claims: "All manufacturers conventional polymer tips in high BC bullets melt in flight." So, as not to continue producing an inferior product, the Amax falls off production. I'm curious to hear what Sierra has to say in response.
I wondered if this isn't just a marketing ploy. Would like to see someone shoot identical grain bullet, one XLD and one non XLD and see if they see any difference @1000 yards. Only way I can think of to check besides there word on it. Am trying to find 178 XLD bullets to compare to the 178 match bullets I was shooting this past summer but not successful. Was able to score on 200 gr XLD-X and 208 gr XLD-M only.
^^ This. It is in no small part marketing, not to say there is nothing else there.
Most of the Amax line is rather old designs, except for the 208gr Amax. If you use Hodgdon's max listed load for a 300WM and a drag function that is actually appropriate(G7) to these bullets, you can see the marketing. Compare Litz's numbers on the 208 with the purported "melty" tips, against the 212gr ELD-X. The difference in flight is only 0.2-0.3 mil out to 1,000. This difference is what you would expect to see from "tipping" a HPBT.
So do the tips melt? I can't say, but the fact that when shooting hornady found "something wrong" with their numbers, to me really speaks to the fact that they have too long held to the G1 for very long match bullets; AND a single G1 at that.
Would be nice if they could capture a bullet down range with no damage to check the tip, but not sure there is a way to do that.
Shoot it up??
My 178's shipped!
Ive been interested to know why they aren't offering a 175 or 178 gr match bullet offering with the tip. Keep me posted how they shoot for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbflyer
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by bearcatrp
If I were a competitor (ie. Sierra with their newish TMK) I would be all over that and, if debunked, call them out on it like a mofo using video evidence. I've seen high speed video of rounds fired into water that don't seem to get distorted too bad- maybe this could be somehow set up at range. Or what if they captured a bullet in flight at range using high speed video? But I like hornady and they're from my home state so I hope the new tip is their new stuff is awesome. I would feel better about it if they gave specifics, such as, under which conditions does the melting occur? Does a 208 Amax in a Subsonic 300blk melt?
Also, +1 on them offering a 175-178gr
Ahhhhh, but that's the beauty of the story, they left themselves an un-provable "out". Remember in the white papers they claim it only happens when bullets sustain very high velocity for a longer period. So essentially they said: "over-pressured Warbird velocity is the only way to get them to melt. Say, you guys want to buy some magic beans for your Creedmoor and 308's?!"
Would think they would start melting right out of the barrel since thats when it the fastest. Will know soon enough. Have acquired 178, 200 and 208 ELD's to test out. Loaded up for the next warmer day but probably not until spring.
Gots to read the white paper. Not just the speed, but the duration. Anything short of the 300WM won't get it done.
As Harold Vaughn already covered long ago in his book, tips make surprisingly VERY little difference, even if they do melt off.
It isn't good marketing to say you are tired of getting your arse handed to you by Berger, so you redesigned your ogives and tails to compete. A little diversion about irrelevant tips and a stab at Nosler's wretchedly inflated single G1 numbers. Then introducing a new bullet with an actual appropriate rating(G7) is much more effective in stirring talk and interest.
Some years back, Handloader Magazine did an article on deformed bullet tips. I don't remember who the author was. They purposely messed up tips in every way they could think of, smashed, bent, ground off on an angle, etc. What they found was that it made no "practical" difference in how they shot. They got some unbelievable groups with those mangled pills.
However, they discovered that " any" damage to the base caused the pill the veer off course.
Pretty colorful fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen:-). The latest, tipped, boat tailed, Gthis, Gthat, catches a lot of shooters that dream of shooting over the horizon, but can really never shoot far enough to have the design take affect.
"Just Sayin" ;-))
That is exactly right Conch. That sounds like essentially a re-do of Vaughn's testing.
Yes the tips mean something, but really only that.