Unusual Request for a phone consulatation

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08-08-2014, 01:23 PM
Cat 64

Unusual Request for a phone consulatation

I am at the wits end with using a Forster FL die for my6.5x47 Lapua. It seems that no matter what I do I can't seem to make it work. Ihave a similar product for my 6 mm BR and it works with no problems. Butthis....well...I have no idea what to do. Called the company but yet I have nosolid direction as to what it might be wrong. If after reading this you havethe desire, the knowledge, and a little time I would appreciate a short phone consultationwhen I get home from work today. The rifle is a Savage target action RBLP witha Criterion 28" barrel. When cycling a spent case things work well, namelyI can close the bolt with not pressure. Then I put the case in the press andafter I deccaped and resized the case I can only cycle that case with significantpressure (anything involving pressure on my part is no good). I use a HornadyLock and Load headspace measuring tool (C = .375") and I see that even thoughthe shoulder has been bumped by .001 or even stayed the same the cyclingbecomes as described above. I have tried to load a cartridge with powder andseat the bullet but discovered that it took significantly more pressure to sitthe bullet and shaves of steel came at the mouth. One more thing, when I cyclethe resized case with pressure I see a ring on the shoulder of the case. Can'texplain what is happening. I tried all the methods suggested on this site and elsewhereregarding setting the die including the instructions which came with the die(raising the ram and have the shell holder touch the die then go 1/8-1/4further clockwise).
08-08-2014, 01:37 PM
Hotolds442

What is the outside neck diameter of your fired brass?
What is the outside neck diameter of your FL sized brass?
You may have to do some neck turning.
Remove the expander ball and size a piece of brass and see how it chambers. You may be pulling the shoulder on the upward stroke.
You may also have a tight chamber and a loose sizing die.
08-08-2014, 01:53 PM
Cat 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotolds442

What is the outside neck diameter of your fired brass?
What is the outside neck diameter of your FL sized brass?
You may have to do some neck turning.
Remove the expander ball and size a piece of brass and see how it chambers. You may be pulling the shoulder on the upward stroke.
You may also have a tight chamber and a loose sizing die.

I can check the answer to the first two questions when I get home. This are brand new Lapua cases. It never happened with the 6 BR. I tried removing the expander ball already to no avail. Yes, I know my chamber is fairly tight.
08-08-2014, 03:14 PM
cranebird

Bump, Sorry.
08-08-2014, 04:28 PM
Hotolds442

I had a problem with a Mauser in 22/250 years ago that I could not get a set of dies for that would properly resize the brass, the shoulder was about .001 long. I had a machinist friend take .0015 off the top of a shell holder and that solved the problem. Later I bought a brand new Remington 700 Varmint Special in 22/250 and was able to go back to a standard shellholder. The modified shellholder went with the Mauser when I sold it. I would only recommend this as a last ditch effort though.
Light a candle and blacken one of your resized cases, chamber it, and see if you can tell where the brass is oversized. It should be very apparent.
08-08-2014, 06:25 PM
Cat 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat 64

I can check the answer to the first two questions when I get home. This are brand new Lapua cases. It never happened with the 6 BR. I tried removing the expander ball already to no avail. Yes, I know my chamber is fairly tight.

Outside neck diameter of fired brass = .293
outside diameter of FL sized brass =.289

Is this within normal parameters?
08-08-2014, 06:49 PM
Cat 64

Looking in my book I see that the outside neck diameter listed is .291
08-08-2014, 07:22 PM
earl39

What is the OD of a loaded round? .003 clearance is min you are looking for in the neck. If you don't have that you may have to turn necks.
08-08-2014, 07:46 PM
Cat 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl39

What is the OD of a loaded round? .003 clearance is min you are looking for in the neck. If you don't have that you may have to turn necks.

I don't think that is the problem. Is nothing to do with the overall dimension. I have a few loaded rounds which I loaded in the brand new cases (I used the last new ones) which cycle great. The loaded round has the exact same overall dimensions but I have a hard time closing the bolt.
08-08-2014, 07:52 PM
Cat 64

It is crazy but it appears the angle of the shoulder increases. I painted with a permanent marker the mouth and shoulder of a case which cycle with force and I see marks of pressure slightly above the datum line. The shoulder cannot bump up after resizing.
08-08-2014, 09:59 PM
Hotolds442

If it were mine I'd headspace the rifle on my freshly resized brass that's been fired in that particular chamber.
08-08-2014, 10:12 PM
Cat 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotolds442

If it were mine I'd headspace the rifle on my freshly resized brass that's been fired in that particular chamber.

These are brand new Lapua cases. I fired them all once with this very exact rifle/chamber. If I re headspace it will be back to the same quandary I am in now wouldn't. I?
08-09-2014, 01:42 PM
Cat 64

I had an extra shellholder which I shaved a little. Still not able to bump past a certain point. Two things happen: 1. I can tell that the shellholder is not "hitting" against the ram any longer if I go past 1/4 turn clockwise (I feel it and and don't hear the familiar sound) and 2. At this point I see a " pronounced" if you wish ring exactly where the shoulder ends and the mouth begins.
08-09-2014, 06:19 PM
KRP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat 64

The shoulder cannot bump up after resizing.

It can move forward during resizing. The die changes the dimensions of the case, the brass has to move somewhere.

Size a few cases with no expander ball in the die and see how they chamber.
08-09-2014, 07:10 PM
Hotolds442

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat 64

I had an extra shellholder which I shaved a little. Still not able to bump past a certain point. Two things happen: 1. I can tell that the shellholder is not "hitting" against the ram any longer if I go past 1/4 turn clockwise (I feel it and and don't hear the familiar sound) and 2. At this point I see a " pronounced" if you wish ring exactly where the shoulder ends and the mouth begins.

You need to screw the sizing die down more to contact the newly altered shellholder, otherwise you're sizing the brass exactly the same as before.