Glass Bedding Changed Harmonics (I think)

Very interesting outcome from heavy Devcon "Plastic Steel" bedding job. Just finished the project that went on for a few weeks between parts accumulating, digging-out the stock, measuring, re-checking, Mudding, etc.

Job came out very well I believe...but my Bug-hole .223 load for this BTCSS varmint gun is now NOT as accurate as my hotter AR-15 accuracy load...funny. There used to be a pronounced diff. between tailored Savage load and AR load but the two have Swapped.

Yahoo, now I can tinker some more to develop a "New" best load for the Savage using 69 SMK's and VV-N135. I may be twisted, but I'm actually looking forward to the new load-cooking process.

I need a better day of shooting to prove it, but I am pretty sure it is the case. Is this normally encountered when the entire action (forward of the trigger anyways) sits in a mirror of itself and the rear tang is now fully floated (not quite the case when it was new)? It easily stands to reason.

I can post pictures of that full bedding process if people are interested to see another example. It was more work than I initially thought and pretty nasty during that 45 minute rush to get all the mud cleaned-up and out, etc. Ware 2 Pairs of surgical gloves as someone once suggested...it is a Very Good bit of advice.

Happily, action DID pop right out after curing for 12-15 Hours using just clear shoe-polish.:cheer2:

Have you tried playing with torque on the screws yet? In theory all things being equal it should've shot tighter after the bedding job so long as you have not bedded the barrel nut area or the rear tang.

We would love to see pics of the job!

Pics please.

WOW, I have bedded many and all have improved.

Please send pictures.

Dennis

Did you carry out some version of a ladder test to id a node before bedding, or just have a load that shot well? It would be interesting to compare node points pre vs post bedded regarding a change in harmonics. If the nodes are the same then there could be something different involved. I can understand the harmonics could change depending upon how well the action is being held in the rifle; think about clamping a 36" steel rod in a vice with steel vs rubber vs wood jaw face and the impact on vibration (such as a tuning fork sound if you were to strike it in this example).

Not saying you did this but a poor bedding job will hurt accuracy.

I definately think that the bedding will change the characteristics of a rifle. So now the hot load is the bug hole load? I am wondering what changes I will see when I drop my 22-250 into a boyds tacticool that I am going to bed with devcon titanium. I need to get out and turn some stainless escutcheons for the stock.

Hi All,

Wow, great response and curiosity level here. I do really enjoy this site (even if I am a Bad Dog and got in trouble for my last "observation" last week... I'm sorry and didn't want to really burn anyone but I just was feeling the "I didn't feel like being lectured-to bug" and I felt bad for the OP) Hope everybody had a great Christmas and Santa was good to you.

I had done a ladder previously and identified 2 distinct accuracy nodes. One was at V-V N135 book Min. for 69g SMK's & .223 (21.6g) and the other was spot-on 23g. The 21.6 was like 0.35 Min. but the 23.0 started to get into the 0.185 Territory. The VV data went as high as 23.8 but I started getting cratered Rem 7 1/2's at 23.2 and more pronounced as they went up. I am actually getting Very slight crater at the 23.0 load but nothing to worry about.

Tonight I will put together 5 loads starting at 22.8 and going 22.9, 23.0, 23.1 to 23.2. Ten rounds each for two groups and see what happens. I will want to see these results before I truly conclude that the sweet-spot shifted. Yahooo!, I get to use my brand new (Merry Christmas To ME) RCBS Charge-Master. Let's see if this things as good as it's cracked-up to be with it's drops. Those 2+ Minutes per manually twice-weighed charges were a PITA and I'm happy to be free of the fuss! (I hope...)

Did not use a rear bag for those amazing groups several weeks ago in the .2's and .mid-teens but I will this time. I must have really been in a groove that I was definitely NOT in last week. Can't believe the difference in hold consistency from trying a buddy's rear-bag to the "left fist elevation" thing. I was not on my game last week and did not have the rear-bag to shoot with when I started my suspicion that the node had changed. It might not have shifted at all.

This is the reason I need to re-shoot a little ladder to see what (if anything) actually changed with the rifle.

I will post pics. of the deep-inletting Glass-Bed job after doing this experiment. I am very confident that the rig is now sitting in a perfect mirror of mud that is absolutely NOT a Skim-Job. This stuff is .25" - .35" thick almost everywhere and the Dam behind the recoil lug is prob. .75" or more thick.

Also DID install Jim's new Ground Recoil Lug, Precision Barrel Nut (small shank) and Worked the face of the Action on some 500 grit oiled wet-paper to get any high-spots or ridges out. It Did takes a few minutes doing figure-8's with the paper sitting on a heavy glass surface to get a uniform finish on the Action face, so I think that was worth it.

See Y'all Later.

SD

Pictures of Devcon Glass-Bedding above...

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...Nut800x507.jpghttp://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...Nut800x507.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nch800x478.jpghttp://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nch800x478.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...Mud800x452.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...Mud800x452.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/delanyachts/Sav%2012%20pics/Glass%20Bedding/JustPoppedfromBed800x381.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...Bed800x381.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/delanyachts/Sav%2012%20pics/Glass%20Bedding/Cleaned-UpInside800x442.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ide800x442.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/delanyachts/Sav%2012%20pics/Glass%20Bedding/ActionBackinStock800x431.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ock800x431.jpg


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/delanyachts/Sav%2012%20pics/Glass%20Bedding/DevconMatingwithAction800x444.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ion800x444.jpg

Why Yes,...that IS a spot where I hacked the right side-rail of my stock with the Dremmel...Dohhh! It only takes a fraction of a second and it's there. *$#%!

The interior of the stock shows where I left a collar of wood around the pillars to make sure the height-reference was not lost. Both Front & Rear Action are contacting the tops of the Factory Pillars. There is absolutely Zero "compression" experienced as you tighten the action bolts from below. When they come tight that is IT...no more can be taken. There used to be a less "Concrete Stop" when tightening in the bolts.

Found that the Rear Tang was actually Hard-Aground on the right-hand side of the inletting channel from factory. It Never "floated" until I sanded out the channel a bit more.

ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL: With a DBM action there are Many recesses & spots where MECHANICAL LOCK can take place if you don't thoroughly go around the action filling them All with the Plumbers Putty. Do this very well. See the "floor" I made out of a piece of duct-tape inside mag-well and then covered with Plumbers putty but still allowed Devcon to get to edge of stainless well. I particularly like the full-surround collar of Devcon you can see encircling the underside of the action in the Mag. Well.

I was pleasantly surprised with the sensible amount of effort it took to pry these two parts from each-other after about 14 hours. I used only Clear Kiwi Polish.

With the danger of the Devcon in the Pillars and Everywhere Else I was really scared that I would have to chisel the thumb-hole factory stock away and start from scratch...but the Bedding Elves were kind to me. Once the action goes into the stock with Mud in the stock AND pasted under the action like Peanut-butter the FUN starts. Get cracking and start scraping, removing this Goo as it comes out of the joints from Around and Under the gun.

I mentioned 2 Pairs of Gloves trick and it is worth it. I never wear gloves for Any mechanical maintenance, cleaning tasks, but DO use them here...You'll be sorry if you don't.

I know the finished execution is not that "pretty", as you'd probably shoot your Smith if he dinged the stock-rail and didn't have tight-clean lines throughout the interior of the stock, however, I strongly believe that this is a very "Meaty" bedding with plenty of Goo filling all the right places and mirroring precisely the underside, sides and recoil-lug of the action.

All in All I'm quite pleased.

BY the way, I got the Action Wrench, Barrel Wrench AND Devcon on AMAZON...yeah Amazon...and didn't have to pay a cent because of the accrued American Distress points from over the years. Woo-Hooo!

The Wheeler (Savage / Remington) Action Wrench works Great and this job would be a real hassle without that particular tool, Get It. It also comes with a slim strip of Brass to wrap the action in where it sits in the Crush-Collar. ZERO cosmetic evidence of removing barrel left on action...very nice. It was STUPID how tight (and full of Crud) that Nut was. Required good Thread-Cleaning with brake cleaner and light bronze brush to get all the grit out. When you retighten nut to 25 Lbs. with anti-seize (Stainless Action & Barrel) you will NOT believe how "NOT TIGHT" you think it is... But don't worry...It's ready to go!

From your pictures I cant tell, but is the front of your recoil lug free floated?

Can you torque the front screw and then the rear screw and not get any movement of the barrel? If barrel doesnt move, you got it done right.

The only other thing to check is the torque testing sequence folks discuss. I usually just go straight to 50 in-lbs and dont have any issues.

Sean

Are any of the magazine components making contact with the bedding? I've found that if the magazine components touch the bedding it can cause all kinds of weird harmonics when the rifle is fired.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FishinFool

When you retighten nut to 25 Lbs. with anti-seize (Stainless Action & Barrel) you will NOT believe how "NOT TIGHT" you think it is... But don't worry...It's ready to go!

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Wow...only 25 foot-pounds? On the barrel-to-action joint? I would have expected it to be WAY higher than that! Seems like it could get shot loose, but I guess the engineers know what they're talking about!

Question: What type of anti-seize is preferred for use on stainless steel for that application? I think I have two types: The "regular" Permatex anti-seize (molybdenum?) and Nickel anti-seize (I think the nickel version is for higher temperatures and/or different metals?)