New Savage 111 in .270Win 'Journey' to accuracy

I went to the range yesterday with my brand new Savage 111 in 270 Win. This is the packages that comes with the Nikon 3x9 scope. The goal was to get it zeroed, chrono some factory vs hand loads and find an accurate combination. For starters, Savage says the scope is boresighted before delivery, mine wasn't, rounds were barely on a 16' target at 25yd. No problem, I got the scope zeroed on the short range. Then, things got a little funny.

I started with some Federal 130gn Spitzer point factory ammo that was traveling just under 3000fps to get a rough zero. The 25yd groups were unimpressive so I moved on to my handloads. I finished zeroing the scope to a 25 yd target with 130gn SPBT handloads (~2600-2750fps range) I went to the 100 yd range to make some fine adjustments. I was getting sub 1 moa groups with 55gn of H-4350 behind a Sierra 130gn SPBT and the scope was zeroed. After shooting those handloads I switched back to the Federal factory 130gn SP ammo (which was hotter at 2975fps) and some Nosler 140gn ballistic tip handloads. Both of those landed WAY to the left and in loose groups.

What would affect the lateral consistency is such a way? I expected vertical differences due to the higher velocity factory ammo and the heavier Nosler bullets, but I was surprised by the big (8-10" left of sight center) difference.

I was not necessarily surprised by the crappy groups from the factory ammo (they are much shorter than my handloads which were 3.250 OAL), but I was disappointed by the poor grouping of the 140gn Nosler which were expensive (and good looking) compared to the Sierras.

Here are the targets, all shot with a very light touch from a Lead Sled:

Here's the 25yd target. I already had a rough zero on the scope with the factory loads on different paper. I was adjusting the scope between groups so only group size is relevant. All the groups are 130gn Sierra SPBT, except the Nosler 140g Accubond group.
http://fishstyx.org/images/25yd.jpg

Here's a 100yd target with the Sierra bullets in front of 52gr and 54gr of Hogdon H4350. I adjusted the scope after the 52 group and went back to this target for the 54 group.
http://fishstyx.org/images/100yd52.jpg

Here's a 100yd target with the Sierra bullets in front of 53gr of Hogdon H4350.
http://fishstyx.org/images/100yd53.jpg

Here's a 100yd target with the Sierra bullets in front of 55gr of Hogdon H4350.
http://fishstyx.org/images/100yd55.jpg

Here's a 100yd target with the Sierra bullets in front of 56gr of Hogdon H4350.
http://fishstyx.org/images/100yd56.jpg

Here's a 100yd target with the Nosler Accubond bullets in front of 54gr of Hogdon H4350.
http://fishstyx.org/images/100ydnos.jpg

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I was getting sub 1 moa groups with 55gn of H-4350 behind a Sierra 130gn SPBT

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The good news is that it looks like you have found a good load for the 130gr Sierra. The Sierra V Manual lists 55.5gr of IMR-4350 @3100fps for that bullet as maximum in the 26" Savage 116 they used for testing. Their "accuracy load" is listed as 56.7gr of Reloader 22 @3000fps and their "hunting load" is 58.2gr RL-22 (MAXIMUM) at 3100fps. I would definitely try some Reloader 22.

As far as the bullet dispersion problem with different loads, you are going to get the usual advise of "check the bases, check the rings, check the stock bolt tension, etc. etc." That is good advice and you should do that. However I really wouldn't worry too much right now about dispersion. You have a new rifle with a new barrel and a new scope. You don't know how reliable the scope is yet so I would shoot the accurate load that you know works and play with the scope first. If the scope proves itself, I would work on developing other loads with different bullet types.

By way of encouragement I would say that the nice triangle shaped three shot groups on a few of your targets are usually and indication that you have a barrel that is going to shoot well, a scope that so far is working correctly and your shooting technique is good.

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Originally Posted by wbm

By way of encouragement I would say that the nice triangle shaped three shot groups on a few of your targets are usually and indication that you have a barrel that is going to shoot well, a scope that so far is working correctly and your shooting technique is good.

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Thanks, I look forward to testing with other powders. Right now, the only other powder I have that would work is Varget. I'm going to load up a bunch of the 55gr loads and shoot out to 300 and see how that goes to exercise me and the rifle, then I'll get back to looking into the left shooting tendancy for that other ammo later.

Regarding velocities, my tightest groups, 52gr and 55gr of Hogdon H3450 were moving at 2525fps and 2675fps respectively according to a ProCrono Digital. That's about 200fps slower than the Lyman book predicted (but they used a 4" longer test barrel). For comparison I clocked some Federal 130gn soft point which the box said muzzle velocity of 3060, I got 2960 @ 10'. I also clocked some CCI 17HMR through another savage rifle and it averaged at 2550, exactly what's on the box.

I realize it's a distraction to stress over chrono data, but I'd like to know if I can trust it. I guess I need to find someone with another one to line up in series so I can compare.

Wow! 2525fps and 2675fps is really poking along with 55gr of H4350. Hodgdon lists 3100fps with a 130gr bullet and 55.5gr of H4350 from a 24" barrel.

You might want to go to here http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi and plug in your data.

Set the scope at say 2" high and 100 then go to 300 and see what the drop is. Not quite as good as a Chrony but closer perhaps to real velocity and performance relative to your H4350 load in your rifle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wbm

Wow! 2525fps and 2675fps is really poking along with 55gr of H4350. Hodgdon lists 3100fps with a 130gr bullet and 55.5gr of H4350 from a 24" barrel.

You might want to go to here http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi and plug in your data.

Set the scope at say 2" high and 100 then go to 300 and see what the drop is. Not quite as good as a Chrony but closer perhaps to real velocity and performance relative to your H4350 load in your rifle.

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Apologies, correction, my powder is H4831, not 4350. I went from memory and should have checked my written load data.

2525 was with 52gr, 2675 was with 55gr.

I agree, the exercise has me doubting the accuracy of my device. I really need another one to line up in series and compare against. They Lyman book called for velocities about 200fps higher (although out of a 4" longer test barrel). The Lyman book indicates 2990fps with a max compressed load of 58gr of H4831

Try 47-49 grains of 4064. Mine shot ittybitty groups at 300 with 47 and 48. Suppose to be O'Conners load maybe.

47.4 grains of IMR 4064 and a 130 Berger gave me 2980 out of a 22" savage and 1/2" five shot groups at 100 yards. 54.0 grains of H4350 gives me 3030fps out of a 22" Ruger and 1/2" groups with a sierra game king at 100 yards. These are my pet loads usual work up for safety in your rifle.

I have always had the best luck/accuracy with H4350 in my 270...and I have always seen the best results from 150g Nosler Ballistic tips (50g of H4350, 150 Nosler BLT, Fed 210M Primer)...I have got decent groups from IMR4831 and IMR4895 but not as good as what I got with H4350.

Update: I've settled on 55.2gr of Hodgdon H-4381 with for Sierra 130gr SPBT (1820). Next I'm going to work up a load for the 140gr Nosler Accubonds.

Here are my current results (with the 9x Nikon scope that came with it).
100yd - Most of my previous groups would fit in a 1" square, so this was a bit loose, but the longer range groups were ok.
http://fishstyx.org/images/100yd.jpg

200yd
http://fishstyx.org/images/200yd.jpg

300yd
http://fishstyx.org/images/300yd.jpg

My 270 really likes the Hornady 130gr SST with 55gr of IMR4350 or 57gr of IMR4831 or 60gr of H4831..all shot .010 off the lands.

Hope this helps

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Originally Posted by mudpig

My 270 really likes the Hornady 130gr SST with 55gr of IMR4350 or 57gr of IMR4831 or 60gr of H4831..all shot .010 off the lands.

Hope this helps

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I ordered the tools I need to measure and load for precise distance to lands, but I don't have them yet. I ordered the Hornady OAL tool (but .270 Win threaded case is on back order), Hornady bullet comparator and case length comparator. I think I'm in the ball park now and can start fine tuning.

I bought more powder, but all I could get was the short cut version of H4381, so I may have to re-tune if that powder hurts my results.

I use H4381 exclusively in my .270 with 130 & 150 Nosler BT's.
There shouldn't be any burn rate difference between the short cut & long cut powder.
I sure didn't notice any.

For my .270 using the 130's, it seemed to like 54.1gr of 4381. I never chrono'ed it but I can say one hole groups were possible on the days when my eyes weren't foggy.
Of was it my brain that was foggy?.... Could've been the scope glass, too....

Update.

I've put a couple hundred rounds through the rifle since new and it's become a solid, consistently accurate platform. I was finally able to get more Sierra 1820 (130gn SPBT). Again, with 55.2gn for H4381SC I'm getting sub MOA performance. I was a the range last week shooting next to a guy tuning his 6.5 Creedmore which he estimated he had about $4,500 into. I was shooting at 100 and 300 yard targets next to his with my $490 111 in 270 Win plus a $140 Simmons Whitetail Classic 6.5x20x50 scope. He was impressed with how well this "budget" rifle shot.
http://fishstyx.org/images/S111.jpg

I could use a few clicks of adjustment, but frankly I was surprised that at was so close to zero after re-mounting the scope.

FWIW, I discovered a real accuracy load in my Win Model 70 in 270 Win ... it was a Speer 100 gr HP in front of 48.5 gr of IMR4895. Worked great on groundhogs past 200 yds. Sometimes grouped < .25 MOA at 100 yds.

I've shot a LOT of that recipe out of that gun...possibly enough to begin to shoot it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fishstyx

I ordered the tools I need to measure and load for precise distance to lands, but I don't have them yet. I .

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Just take a once fired brass and insert bullet in the end of it, if it's loos put something around the bullet
To give it alight tension or use a piece of brass thT has a slight dent in the neck. Put in chamber, close bolt, remove shell and measure the shell with bullet. Repeat a few times to make sure it's consistant. This will give you ovalerall length of the bullet when it's to the lands

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luke45

Just take a once fired brass and insert bullet in the end of it, if it's loos put something around the bullet
To give it alight tension or use a piece of brass thT has a slight dent in the neck. Put in chamber, close bolt, remove shell and measure the shell with bullet. Repeat a few times to make sure it's consistant. This will give you ovalerall length of the bullet when it's to the lands

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The way I always did it was just keep trying to close the bolt on a round with the bullet seated. Keep adjusting the die little by little so that the bullet seats a hair deeper each time, and just keep trying to close the bolt on it/seating deeper/trying again until you can just cam the bolt closed. Always reduce powder charge before firing such a load, as seating it to contact the lands boosts pressure. Once you get it to where you want it, lock the adjustment screw on the die and measure your finished COAL for future reference.

I broke down a bought the Hornady tool to measure max COAL, plus a bullet comparator and case headspace comparator. The only thing I'm not doing at this point the turning the necks for uniformity. It's probably overkill for my needs, but I find it interesting and hope to eventually pick up a higher end precision rifle and try my hand at long range consistency.

You'll be going full-blown bench rest precision reloading before you know it!