I asked before but need clarification...extending brass life

I am going start neck sizing to get the most out of my brass. I will only be doing this for my 223 bolt gun, no autos or other guns.

I got recommendations to use a Redding body die to bump the shoulder back when needed.

I am probably messed up in my thinking but if I bump the shoulder back wouldn't it also FL size the brass body also at the same time? I do not want to work the brass more than I have to now. If I can get away with only neck sizing that would be great but I did notice some of the neck sized only brass was a little stiff to chamber but extracted easily.

If I am only going to be neck sizing for one bolt action is there still going to be a need to bump the shoulder from time to time?

If I do need a body die to bump the shoulder, which die should I get? (a link would be great)

Thanks
Dolomite

The Redding Body die is good advise. Yes, it will full length size the body but if you neck sized brass causes hard bolt closure, the case shoulder must be set back slightly to remedy the problem. Your not over working the brass bumping the shoulder every 4 or 5 loadings.

I ordered my Redding bump die from Midsouth Shooter Supply.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GaCop

The Redding Body die is good advise. Yes, it will full length size the body but if you neck sized brass causes hard bolt closure, the case shoulder must be set back slightly to remedy the problem. Your not over working the brass bumping the shoulder every 4 or 5 loadings.

I ordered my Redding bump die from Midsouth Shooter Supply.

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Do you mean a Redding FL body die?

I suspect that is what you mean because I can't firnd anything about a Redding bump die.

Dolomite

The redding body die will give you a full resize and, theoretically, a .002" bump on the shoulder without touching the neck. In practice, I found that the die needs to be adjusted to your chamber dimensons to perform the .002" bump, besause oftentimes it's more than .002", particularly with magnums.

If you want a die that performs neck sizing and shoulder bump, get the Forster bushing bump neck sizing die.

I use the Forster Bushing Bump die on my 22 and 6 BR cases. Move the shoulder back .002 to .003 and load them back up. Might need a Redding Body die after about 5 or 6 friengs. The Forster Bushing Bump die won't full size the body. Just the neck and bump the shoulder. That's where the body die comes in. If the bolt starts to get snug on closing, run the case through the body die after you've bumped the shoulder and sized the neck.
Set the headspace snug and your brass will last a long time. I've got 15 to 20 firings on cases and they're still going strong. The more you move the brass the shorter it's life.

Using a body die is needed because eventually the brass will not chamber it will get to think and need sized back down. (This is 1970's technology.) When people use this method they usually size them down about every three firings. Most people when the feel the brass bolts down hard they turn the fired case upside down. My experience (and from talking to others) I would not fire a round that bolts down hard, because that one is usually a flier. If it bolt down hard I open the chamber and extract it. I found with neck sizing only that even if the brass fits the chamber, that it will need fl sized (after about 3 firings) or they start sticking in you bullet seating die.

You will need a chamber gauge to see how far you are pushing the shoulder back on your rounds. My experience with reeding body dies is they are far off. The one I have from my 22br would not bump the shoulder back at all. I had to place the die on sandpaper over a piece of glass to get it where the dimensions are right. I called reeding and they said this was a common problem and told me to do what I did.

I would discourage you to buy a expensive neck die, and a body die. I have found no evidence that they allow the brass to go any longer than FL sizing. Maybe back in 1970 when the brass was not so good this was an issue , but now we have some of the best brass around. The other problems I have found with using a neck sizing die is consintrisity problems, and donuts forming inside the neck. Even with neck sizing you will eventually have to anneal them. I just can not find any evidence that this is a better method.

So, to get the most out of brass for a single gun what would be the best solution? I realize nothing is perfect but considering everything out there what would be the best solution to get the best compromise between longevity and accuracy?

The more I think about it I am definately going to seperate the neck and body sizing, I just need to get an idea of what I need to get the best results. By best I mean the most life from the brass while maintaining a higher level of accuracy than what I got before.

Before I was happy with 1/2 MOA but now I am looking for more, I know the gun is capable of it I just need to tweak it a bit. I was never really into super accurate centerfires, mostly tactical type stuff and as long as I could get onto IPSC size target out to 500 yards I was happy. I like the challenge of ranging and getting on target than shooting small groups or at least I used to. Before I would FL size and deprime in one step. I would just make sure they were under the max length and call it good, never worrying about the brass being dimensionally similar. I would have brass that ranged from 1.759 to below 1.750 before and had acceptable accuracy for what I would shoot. Problem I was running into is that I would get 4 loadings max before I started splitting case necks.


Thanks for all the advice.
Dolomite

To get max brass life and best accuracy, you need to anneal your case necks after every 2 or 3 firings. This does 2 things that are helpful.

1. Annealed brass will resize with minimum brass working and retain consistent dimensions because spring back is low and is essentially the same for all cases.

2. Bullet pull will be similar for annealed cases because case neck tension is similar for all cases.

RWO

There s lots of good advice here...annealing, shoulder bumping, neck sizing only, as needed,... several others too...one other thing that would help A LOT would be to open it up to 223 AI. It would also give an increase in performance too. ;)

Also loads just a bit under max will greatly extend brass life!

Here are my suggestions:

Lee Collet die - great for concentricity, minimal working of brass, consistent neck tension and, not expensive
Redding body die - for every 2-4 firings. Needs adjustement for proper shoulder bump
Forster benchrest seater - as good as any and cheper. Micro die is a worthwhile upgrade

To adjust body and indeed any FL die, I suggest you get a Digital Headspace Gauge from Larry Willis. The gauge can also be used to measure bullet distance from the rifling:
http://www.larrywillis.com/

Thanks guys, now I have a plan of attack. I was just needing a bit more info which is what I got. Now I just need to work out a routine and get things ordered.

Thanks again
Dolomite