308 and 3006 vs 260

This last range trip has been a blast. I haven't met anyone that hated shooting clay pigeons at 1000 yards. First rifle to shoot was a 3006 shooting 175gr Sierra Matchking at 2670. The gun was great, and had a great group all things considered at 1000 yards. The barrel was a 24" varmint contour CBI barrel on a trued remington action.

I recently developed an awesome load for my 260. It's pushing 140gr Berger Hybrid at 2850fps. (H4350 is an awesome powder for 260). The first shot took a pigeon out. Out of 20 rounds, 5 more pigeons would be no more.

The third rifle was a 308 shooting the 168gr Sierra TMK at 2700fps. This rifle also grouped well, but alas, the pigeons stood firm.

I've had similar results with my 7mm remington magnum at 1000 yards and easily blasting pigeons. If the wind hadn't been blowing 3 different directions, I might have done better. I know you guys would consider that an easy shot, with a 308, but I don't have that kind of skill.

Once I'm done with my friend's build, I'm going to rebarrel my 308. I'm thinking a straight 284 shooting the 162gr Hornady ELD. What are your thoughts on a straight 284?

Nothing easy about hitting clay birds at 1000 yds. And you are correct, it can be both fun and also addictive.
They are easy to see, and the best part is not much cost and no need to go gather them up when you leave.
When they break you still have the pieces to aim at also, and with the right soil conditions you know immediately shot to shot what just happened.
Great practice for anybody, but it is especially good for keeping kids entertained at mid range with cartridges like 223s.

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Originally Posted by psharon97

This last range trip has been a blast. I haven't met anyone that hated shooting clay pigeons at 1000 yards. First rifle to shoot was a 3006 shooting 175gr Sierra Matchking at 2670. The gun was great, and had a great group all things considered at 1000 yards. The barrel was a 24" varmint contour CBI barrel on a trued remington action.

I recently developed an awesome load for my 260. It's pushing 140gr Berger Hybrid at 2850fps. (H4350 is an awesome powder for 260). The first shot took a pigeon out. Out of 20 rounds, 5 more pigeons would be no more.

The third rifle was a 308 shooting the 168gr Sierra TMK at 2700fps. This rifle also grouped well, but alas, the pigeons stood firm.

I've had similar results with my 7mm remington magnum at 1000 yards and easily blasting pigeons. If the wind hadn't been blowing 3 different directions, I might have done better. I know you guys would consider that an easy shot, with a 308, but I don't have that kind of skill.

Once I'm done with my friend's build, I'm going to rebarrel my 308. I'm thinking a straight 284 shooting the 162gr Hornady ELD. What are your thoughts on a straight 284?

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I'm in the position. Got a 308 and getting ready to rebarrel. I've considered 6.5x284 as well but I'm still having great results with 6.5,s and more than likely going 6 creed.

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I know you guys would consider that an easy shot, with a 308, but I don't have that kind of skill.

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Guys that tell you they "consider that an easy shot" with a 308 at 1000 are just blowing smoke up you know where.

If there is no wind, the 308 isn't that bad. Yes it does have the trajectory of a rainbow, but if you're shooting on a really calm day, it can accurately hit targets. If there is wind, and if you're shooting beyond 600 yards though, the weaknesses of the lighter 30 calibers like the 308 and 3006 really show their weaknesses. It's about like trying to go off road in a 2 wheel drive vehicle.

Whereas my 260 and my 7mm rem mag make busting pigeons a little easier. Even shooting in the same conditions, I was able to consistently hit multiple targets. Granted, I was only about to hit 5 pigeons out of 20 rounds spent with the 260, vs no pigeons hit with 30 rounds of 308 and 20 rounds through a 30/06. This is why I've decided to rebuild my 308 into a 284 winchester. I'll start a new thread for the 2 builds I'm currently working on.

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Originally Posted by psharon97

If there is no wind, the 308 isn't that bad. Yes it does have the trajectory of a rainbow, but if you're shooting on a really calm day, it can accurately hit targets. If there is wind, and if you're shooting beyond 600 yards though, the weaknesses of the lighter 30 calibers like the 308 and 3006 really show their weaknesses. It's about like trying to go off road in a 2 wheel drive vehicle.

Whereas my 260 and my 7mm rem mag make busting pigeons a little easier. Even shooting in the same conditions, I was able to consistently hit multiple targets. Granted, I was only about to hit 5 pigeons out of 20 rounds spent with the 260, vs no pigeons hit with 30 rounds of 308 and 20 rounds through a 30/06. This is why I've decided to rebuild my 308 into a 284 winchester. I'll start a new thread for the 2 builds I'm currently working on.

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Why .284 win instead of a .280?

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Originally Posted by hereinaz

Why .284 win instead of a .280?

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To answer your question, please remember that the caliber selections and even the scope selections are more of a subjective choice. When I was comparing rounds between the 280 and the 284 there really isn't much of a performance difference in terms of velocity and necking down 30/06 Lapua brass would net you the same result. However, I've noticed that many long range benchrest shooters are shooting rounds like the straight or improved 284, the 7mm rsaum, or similar rounds. I didn't see a lot of shooters shooting the 280. I wanted a round the was very accurate, I could more easily seat the 180gr berger hybrid out and somewhat make it work on a short action, yet still achieve 2850fps. I'm not saying that the 280 is vastly inferior to the 284, it didn't meet my criteria. Most of this is my opinion, kind of like asking why a reloader would choose the 260 over the 6.5 creedmoor or vise versa. Ballistically, they are almost identical in performance and accuracy. The same could be said when comparing the 284 to the 280.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek088.html

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Originally Posted by psharon97

To answer your question, please remember that the caliber selections and even the scope selections are more of a subjective choice. When I was comparing rounds between the 280 and the 284 there really isn't much of a performance difference in terms of velocity and necking down 30/06 Lapua brass would net you the same result. However, I've noticed that many long range benchrest shooters are shooting rounds like the straight or improved 284, the 7mm rsaum, or similar rounds. I didn't see a lot of shooters shooting the 280. I wanted a round the was very accurate, I could more easily seat the 180gr berger hybrid out and somewhat make it work on a short action, yet still achieve 2850fps. I'm not saying that the 280 is vastly inferior to the 284, it didn't meet my criteria. Most of this is my opinion, kind of like asking why a reloader would choose the 260 over the 6.5 creedmoor or vise versa. Ballistically, they are almost identical in performance and accuracy. The same could be said when comparing the 284 to the 280.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek088.html

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Thanks!

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Originally Posted by hereinaz

Why .284 win instead of a .280?

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Since it's a 308, I'm assuming he has a short action to work with. The 284 will fit in the short action, whereas the 280 will not.

You'll love the 284. I have one in a Savage long action that shoots lights out (by my standards at least). I just started messing with the 180 eldm and so far it's shooting great.

I have the bullets seated out that I still have to single feed the rounds in my rifle, it would have been better if I had a long action. Sometimes you have to work with what you got. I don't intend to use this rifle in a manner where quick followup shots will be required. I do love the 284 and am impressed with it's performance out to 1000 yards. It almost matches the ballistics of my 7mm rem mag using less powder and a much shorter case. It's too bad this case isn't used more.

Yes, factory ammo for the 284 will be very hard to find vs the 280. 284 Win brass is still available. Lots of folks are re-sizing Lapua brass. Norma is now making 284 brass also.

That's what I've done, resize 6.5-284 Lapua brass and necked it up. I'm very satisfied with the results. I know folks are pushing this round to duplicate and attempt to surpass a 7mm rem mag, but I already have one of those. With Reloader 17, it's running 50fps slower than my 7mm rem mag.

My current load for my 7mm rem mag is 63gr reloader 22 pushing a 180gr berger hybrid to 2900fps using Norma brass
My 284 is using 52gr of reloader 17 pushing a 180gr berger hybrid to 2850fps using necked up 6.5x284 lapua brass.

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Originally Posted by psharon97

That's what I've done, resize 6.5-284 Lapua brass and necked it up. I'm very satisfied with the results. I know folks are pushing this round to duplicate and attempt to surpass a 7mm rem mag, but I already have one of those. With Reloader 17, it's running 50fps slower than my 7mm rem mag.

My current load for my 7mm rem mag is 63gr reloader 22 pushing a 180gr berger hybrid to 2900fps using Norma brass
My 284 is using 52gr of reloader 17 pushing a 180gr berger hybrid to 2850fps using necked up 6.5x284 lapua brass.

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That's my line of thinking too. No need to push things just to get another 50-100 fps. Get the bullet going in the speed range that you're looking for and then tweak things for maximum accuracy and consistency. No point pushing things past that. just risking shorter brass life, reduced accuracy, and lessening the 'safety margin' for shooting on hot days and such...

With a .308 at 1,000, a Berger 200 Hybrid will leave the muzzle much slower than some but will be much faster at the target. Why, it's the the choice for many for FTR at 1,000. Assuming long enough barrel to get decent velocity.