weird grouips

concerning my new savage model 12 fv, approx 300 rounds thru the gun, groups are erratic, not sure what it is, starting with a clean barrel, maybe some help here when i go to the range normally the first 3 to 4 shots are tight, like under 1/2 inch, then the groups are erratic, they vary from out to 1 inch or more, strange patterns, wonder where i should start looking, action screws are tight, scope hardware is tight, using good solid front rest and rear bag, trigger is around a pound, is the action moving around in the tupperware type stock, i am thinking of bedding the action and recoil lug, and try another scope which i doubt it is, and last going to order a new Choate tactical stock, which i am going to do anyway. did i miss something.

Chet

Make sure the barrel and rear tang of the action are free floated, if not, as the barrel warms up you'll have point of impact changes. If the action screws are tight (45 inch pounds or so) you typically don't see any shifting even with magnum chamberings.

Do you recall if you are giving enough time between volleys so that the barrel will cool down? Normally after shooting a string of 5 rounds I will then allow the barrel to reach ambient temp before shooting the next volley.

Hotolds' suggestion to look for free float around the tang and barrel is solid advice.

thanks for the tips guys, another thing i was thinking, i do have a SSS recoil lug laying around, is that worth a try.

Chet

what kind of barrel? Original Savage Varmint? It should take fare more than take 5 shots, I more or less get 5-15 in between sessions. Barrel gets warm but not hot. then a good 10 minutes cool down while people do their targets. Cold or hot it does not seem to have a tendency. I do have a good stock headed this way (VF stock is pretty low cost, but I knew that going in)

I have had some oddities show up in mine as well, clearly free floated. Have not done a barrel change or the improved lug and nut on that one yet, still has Warranty (not sure its worth it as they say you have to ship back on your dime)

Mine has 1500 round through it (308) , I was getting some good sub 5/8 inch groups then it drifted.

I have a XC Bull on the project gun I am cross testing. Bad conditions on the range and it shot reliably 7/8 and a bit less at 108 yds.

I wouldn't expect that a recoil lug swap would make a difference unless your current lug is damaged or out of spec. The precision lug will index to the same exact spot in the stock, so if there's an issue with the recoil lug bedding, you won't change it by swapping lugs.
You didn't mention cleaning, but if you're cleaning the barrel after each session, you may want to shoot it dirty - most of my Savage barrels perform better with around 50-100 rounds down the tube, and will let me know when it's time to give them a good cleaning.

The recoil lug isn't going to matter with this issue. Has this gun done this all 300 rounds or just recently? If all 300 then chances are your barrel is bending as it warms up. Which is not uncommon. Easy way to see this is if the group strings. Example: one shot center, 2 shot hits to the right, third shot hits to right of 2nd, fourth to right of third and so fourth

all 300 or so rounds were shot over a 3 week period, shots fired varies, maybe 25 at one trip, then 40 or so but today i shot around 60 over a 4 hr period, the first 3 shots were very tight, then about 3 min later i fired the fourth and it was to the right about 1/2" then the 5th shot was up and high about 5/8", some groups were 2", i was trying about 8 different loads, in fact one of the loads that was terrible the other day, was the same load i started with today that shot the first 3 shots great, if it is the barrel, i guess i have to contact savage about a return, hmm hope i don't have to go that route.

Chet

You have yet to tell us what caliber and what ammo you are shooting

Also didn't mention what ammo is being used. Many types of factory ammo are just loaded that bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chetc

all 300 or so rounds were shot over a 3 week period, shots fired varies, maybe 25 at one trip, then 40 or so but today i shot around 60 over a 4 hr period, the first 3 shots were very tight, then about 3 min later i fired the fourth and it was to the right about 1/2" then the 5th shot was up and high about 5/8", some groups were 2", i was trying about 8 different loads, in fact one of the loads that was terrible the other day, was the same load i started with today that shot the first 3 shots great, if it is the barrel, i guess i have to contact savage about a return, hmm hope i don't have to go that route.

Chet

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I'm Gona guess the barrel is the issue if this problem is consistent. I've seen lots of barrels that would throw shots
To start and then shoot good. So I could see your doing the opposite as it heats up/fouls. You could test the heat issue by shooting your normal 3 shots and waiting until barrel cools to fire the other 2. See if that repeats the same

caliber is a 223 and ammo are all reloads, bullets i tried are 50 to 75gr tips, i dont think its ammo related as i mentioned, the other day i was trying one of my 55 vmax loads after about 20 shots and it shot around 1 inch, and yesterday i start with that same load and the first 3 were nearly one hole, going to check the bedding again, the gap on the left side of the barrel channel seems to be larger than when i bought the gun, might try a little bedding, and maybe bring another scope with me, i hope it is not the barrel, i filled the voids in the forearm and added some weight in the rear area of the stock, the rifle weighs 3 lbs more than stock, i am hoping that the choate tactical will remedy the issue, or my buddy has the same gun, i can always borrow the stock to send back to savage if i have to do that.

Chet

Double post

Twist rate, scope, reload recipe(bullet/powder/powder weight/primer/brand and number of firings on cases), how you measure your powder(consistency), proper torque on action screws. Sometimes even cleaning regimen. All things that help people help you. Without that information and more it is a random shot in the dark.

took the gun apart, there was a slight contact on the rear tang, did a little touching up on the bedding, going to try again just afternoon, with 4 or 5 loads that seems to work, also i did not clean the barrel, as one user mentioned some guns need 50 to 100 rounds, as of yesterday i have about 55-60 rounds i have 30 ready to try later. i am hoping i can shoot 5 without losing my accuracy, i have a few other savages, i have a model 11g sporter that will shoot 10 rounds easily accurate, and the same for my 12 BVSS both in 223's. if i cannot get this to work after i get my new choate stock, i will just order an aftermarket 223 barrel.

Chet