Aftermarket trigger: Timney vs. Rifle Basix

I have been considering getting an aftermarket trigger for my Axis. I've clipped the factory trigger spring down and did some polishing which helped immensely, but it's still not a target trigger. I would just let it be but the rifle shoots so darn good I think it would help tighten the groups up even more if I weren't having to deal with the factory trigger. I'm already getting around 1/2 MOA @ 100 yards with factory ammo and in the factory stock so I'm hoping the combination of the Boyd's stock I got for it, my handloads, and an aftermarket trigger will have it shooting one-holers @ 100 yards.

I'd like to hear from those of you who are using either of the available aftermarket triggers on your Axis, what you think of them, which you would recommend. I'm leaning a little toward the Timney, just because the brand has a great reputation. But I'm open to either one. I just want a great trigger on this rifle so it can reach its full potential.

I run the Rifle basix trigger in mine breaks like glass set between 1-1.5lbs after breaking it in over the last 5 months. I shoot mostly long range steel and have recently jumped in on a few F T/R matches.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/02/8apuhuha.jpg

I too also use the Rifle basix trigger in all my AXIS.
I do have a Timney in my AR platform, it was drop in fit.

I have 4 axis rifles. Rifle Basix in them all. Easy installation and easy to adjust.

Well I have noticed that the rifle basix says it will adjust down to 14 oz. The Timney claims 1.5 lbs as it's lowest setting. Do y'all have the Rifle Basix turned down as light as they will go? Are they still safe when they're that light?

Mine is rock solid.

Look at the SSS competition trigger. I am personally considering it, since I will no longer touch a Rifle Basix trigger after the examples I have personally seen.

You also don't have to buy it at SSS, brownells carry them http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...-prod7389.aspx

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/pr...36100110_1.jpg

They seem to be the only game in town that actually has a reputation for quality and are clearly doing something differently than everyone else. Forgot to mention, price is fairly modest too.. Just over $100.

I haven't seen one fit into an Axis yet. Let us know how it goes!

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Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

Look at the SSS competition trigger. I am personally considering it, since I will no longer touch a Rifle Basix trigger after the examples I have personally seen.

You also don't have to buy it at SSS, brownells carry them http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...-prod7389.aspx

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/pr...36100110_1.jpg

They seem to be the only game in town that actually has a reputation for quality and are clearly doing something differently than everyone else. Forgot to mention, price is fairly modest too.. Just over $100.

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Westcliffe01 I'm curious about your feelings on the Basix...what did you see?

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Originally Posted by steveNChunter

Well I have noticed that the rifle basix says it will adjust down to 14 oz. The Timney claims 1.5 lbs as it's lowest setting. Do y'all have the Rifle Basix turned down as light as they will go? Are they still safe when they're that light?

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I have mine set to just a tad bit over 1.5...have not tried any lower.

I have written about it several times, but here are my thoughts. I bought 2 rifles, one as a donor (270) and another in a trade for my Rem 700 in 8x57. The 270 was fitted with a Sav1 trigger. It is basically a replacement for the original Savage triggers which used to have adjustment for the sear and overtravel. So in a rifle with a completely crap trigger, a Sav1 might be an improvement, but only because Savage eliminated their own 3 screw triggers in the first place.

My general comment regarding these triggers is that there is very little in the way of precision machining on them, They are straight MIM parts and my impression was that the only feature that was machined was the sear engagement point and threads. The thickness had not been machined or ground. The pivot bore did not appear to have been machined at all. Basically how it comes out of the die, then into the sintering line.

The Sav 2 trigger, which obviously has a lot more parts and its own frame was the worst. NONE of the parts appeared to be precision machined. NONE of the parts that go into the frame, or the frame itself appear to be dimensionally matched. The trigger is loose in the frame. The pins are loose in the holes in the frame and loose in the hole in the trigger. The trigger had a LOT of side to side slop. Worse than ANY AK47 trigger I have ever handled.

It just blows my mind that one can throw together a bunch of "as cast" or "as MIMed" parts with a few pins, C clips and springs, then machine just the sear engagement and call it a precision trigger and sell it for $170 ?????

Savage triggers and sears are crude, generally, especially the sear which is a very rough stamping. But at least I can't take the trigger in any of my factory rifles and wiggle the trigger 1/16" side to side (each way) which was how the fit and finish was on the Sav 2. Then I am supposed to trust this thing not to malfunction down to a fraction of a lb ? The fact was I would have never taken a great interest in the trigger if it "just worked" but it didn't. It could easily be tripped by just releasing the safety, closing the bolt, bumping the stock etc etc. In fact the seller knew full well about the problem, since the first FFL we dealt with for a transfer refused to sell it the way it was, fearing a lawsuit. So I knew about it, but I figured I could work it out. But by the time I had it "working" it was a lousy trigger compared to any of my accutriggers and totally crap compared to my target accutrigger.

Disclaimer, I am a mechanical engineer who has a few patents and I design stuff for processes like MIM, so I know what the processes (and machining processes) are and are not capable of. If you look at a Shilen trigger which sells for about $100 at Brownells / Midway, then you will see how a precision trigger is supposed to be made at a modest price compared to the Sav 2 JUNK. And remember, a Shilen trigger is just a step up from the old Remington triggers. Its not yet a Jewel, or a Timney, by any means.

I should add that the rifle had not been shot much, since I found that the barrel nut was loose due to an incorrect recoil lug that interfered with the nut. So it was not as if the trigger I got had seen thousands of rounds.

What are your views on the Timney Axis replacement ?

I have not seen a Timney and do not own an axis either. I missed the axis reference in the first post.

I have to seriously question the sense in putting a high value trigger into a $300 rifle ? For the cost difference one could probably buy a model 12 or a model 10 with a decent trigger in it, not to mention a better stock, proper recoil lug and a metal magazine. My model 10PC cost me $550 (with fiberglass stock and aluminum bedding block) and my model 12 LPV cost $770 which included the stainless action, 26" fluted varmint barrel, laminate stock and target accutrigger.

A different example, I got a model 110 in 270 for $285 (lightly used) with a synthetic stock. Removed the $<50 tomato stake sporter barrel and fitted a Shilen. With the model 12, there is a steady demand for the factory fluted varmint barrels, and a new take off will fetch $180, so by the time you are done with adding a Shilen, you are only out of pocket about $160.

Trying to "work up" to that kind of spec from an axis does not make a whole lot of sense in my mind. Leave the Axis models for the people who are satisfied with a group the size of a paper plate at 100 yards. Those are the kind of people that the rifles are marketed to.

I understand that one of the admins on this forum has an axis project going which is a full custom, but I fail to see the sense in it. One could buy a target action for ~$450 which already includes a target accutrigger, proper recoil lug and barrel nut, or you can spend $300+ on a rifle with a junk scope, junk stock, junk trigger, junk recoil lug, bunch of parts not compatible with other Savage rifles, throw all the junk away, then pay someone (SSS) who is reported to have Loooong lead times and terrible customer service (even though their actual PRODUCT may be fine) rework it, true and time, make the breech end non standard so it can accept a "modified" factory recoil lug... I mean, it sounds to me like doing something to prove a point as opposed to something that just makes sense.

Would you go out today and buy a Yugoslavian Mauser M24/47 for $280 just so that you could strip it down to the receiver, then on that, replace the trigger, have the bolt forged, fit a low profile safety, machine the action for scope bases, have the receiver blueprinted (total value by the time you are done = price of a Shilen/Stiller/Pierce custom action) ? I don't see the sense in it. Much easier to write 1 check for a stiller, every part is cnc machined, properly heat treated, ground etc and if you ever want to sell it, it is still a Stiller/Pierce/insert name and enyone who would consider buying it knows what it is.

To get this straight, with a lathe and a mill, I could machine an action and bolt from scratch. Throw in some wire EDM time and one can cut the lug raceways and make your trigger from scratch. The question is simply why one would ? If we woke up tomorrow and all our weapons had disapeared, one would have a valid reason for such a project for "strategic" purpose. Otherwise I am left shaking my head.

Uh, OK, Thanks! ;-)

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Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

I missed the axis reference in the first post.

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Uh, we're in the Savage Axis/Edge Rifles section of the forum.(Ok, just poking a bit of good natured fun at you. :rolleyes:)

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Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

I have to seriously question the sense in putting a high value trigger into a $300 rifle ? (Remainder deleted from quote to save space)

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You make some extremely good points about modifying an inexpensive rifle that has not been around long enough to have the aftermarket parts that Savage 10/110 rifles have.

I take issue with one point you made. My perception is that the general consensus (at least on this forum) is that the Axis rifles are by and large accurate shooters (based on the anecdotal evidence read in multiple posts on this forum), so your paper plate accuracy analogy would not seem to hold water if we can believe the members who post those kinds of results.

(What follows is discussion, not an argument.) For you, modifying an Axis is not what you desire to do. I certainly won't argue with you about your preferences.

Some folks, myself included, like to tinker. There is a certain challenge to figuring out an issue and fixing it, even when the expenditure of time and effort might be more than it's worth. Now that there are some aftermarket stocks available at reasonable prices, it is relatively easy to find a barrel to suit one's needs, put an Axis in a nice aftermarket laminate stock, do a bit of trigger work, add a rail and scope and voila! A relatively inexpensive great shooting rifle.

I agree with you about the trigger being the thorn in the ointment. When take off Accutriggers were available for not a lot of money, it was easy to find one and mod it to fit. Now they are more expensive, looks like in the 60-70 dollar range on eBay, so that drives up the price as well.

In my opinion, the bottom line is that the Axis, just as with any rifle, is suitable for some and not suitable for others, based mostly on personal preference.

Ok, I guess we should probably get back to our regularly scheduled topic.
:focus:

My reasoning is I had an all factory rifle with a cheap scope that shoots 1/2 MOA in factory trim using factory ammo. How is that rifle not worth putting a better stock and trigger on, and eventually better glass? So what if the rifle cost (it's the stainless model) $329? It shoots better than most of my rifles, all of which cost more (some ALOT more) than the Axis.

Steve, despite Savages best efforts at the contrary, it is true that occasionally you will find one that shoots good. Just don't have that expectation next time you buy one, or the one after that, because then you may be disappointed.

I see the prices have dropped slightly on the Sav 2, Midway now has it for $155 and the Sav 1 is still $100. You can get an accutrigger take off for about $45 and it can be made to fit the axis (there is a writeup here ) I honestly believe that the Savage triggers are better made than Rifle Basix. You just can't buy the trigger from Savage, so you have to scrounge for a takeoff from the places that fit the aftermarket triggers. I advertised here in the classifieds and I got 2 accutriggers (one a target version) in just a week.

Thank's "t"! You said it way better than I couda! ;-)

Its the old "silk purse from a sows ear" story.... I understand, some people take pleasure in making something good from something that had potential, but was badly executed.. Does that sound better ?

Try putting a wanted ad out for an accutrigger takeoff. I know that Jim at NSS sells and fits the rifle basix, and SSS of course sells their own trigger. Come to think of it, I believe it was SSS who said that they had the accutriggers in stock as takeoffs. They carry new Savage parts too. I think one should be safe with SSS provided it is something that is stocked. If they have to get it, lord only knows when you will see it...

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Originally Posted by steveNChunter

My reasoning is I had an all factory rifle with a cheap scope that shoots 1/2 MOA in factory trim using factory ammo. How is that rifle not worth putting a better stock and trigger on, and eventually better glass? So what if the rifle cost (it's the stainless model) $329? It shoots better than most of my rifles, all of which cost more (some ALOT more) than the Axis.

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Because it sounds like it doesn't need it ?

I put a Rifle Basix trigger on mine. I was able to dial it down to 1 lb 5 oz. safely. I think Rifle Basix advertises 1-3 lbs for the trigger. I could not reliably get mine down to 1 lb., but it is a nice trigger as I have it now. It did take me a while to get it adjusted correctly and I am happy with the current weight. It is much better than the stock trigger.

I've heard a lot about the Rifle Basix, for and against, but it seems that not many people have had much first hand experience with the Timney. I'm surprised, I figured the Timney would be more popular

I figured the Timney would be more popular as well. :confused:

I have all the triggers mentioned above on various savage rifles--I agree the SSS is one of the best (though some of you might recall it's no easy task getting it in on some models without "surgery").Between the basix and the timney I give the nod to the basix.

I'm no expert on guns, nor physics--but I'm pretty good at screwing things up if there is a way.

I personally take a jaundiced view of the "how low can you go" pursuit of match trigger performance in what were generally meant to be utility-grade hunting rifles. My rifles go out into the woods and spend a lot of time with a round in the well (which mostly don't get fired)--so my standard for safety reliability has to go beyond simply banging the butt of the rifle on the ground and calling it good.

I always handle my firearms as if loaded--but I also treat them as "safety off" even if it's on. Just sayin.

Unless I am mistaken, the Timney trigger is a relative newcomer for the Savage ? Timney does say that their triggers are machined from steel, not metal injection molded. It can be done properly either way, provided all critical features are actually machined. For the money, I would think the Timney would be a safer bet than the Rifle Basix. Note the nylon inserts for thread locking on the Timney vs your applied loctite on the others. Pretty sure dimensional control is better too.