Re: .308 neck or full resize
Welcome to the site.
Neck sizing is 1970's technology, people still do it and believe it is "The way" to do things just because it worked back then. Today we have every component better including better brass, and better dies.
People believe that you get longer brass life out of neck sizing, the fact is it is not true. What actually happens is the opposite. Because the brass is not exercised like it is in full length sizing, it blows out of size and gets hard,then the brass builds up a memory, and when you go to full length size the brass it moves and springs back to the shape it was prior to sizing. So it is defeating the purpose to body or full length size it.
With Full length sizing the brass will last the life of the barrel, and even longer. Because we have better brass, the life span is not an issue as it was a time ago.
Re: .308 neck or full resize
I would add to that excellent advice that you should FL size just to bump back the shoulders a small ammount - not necissarily as much as is possible with your FL die bottoming out against the shell holder (unless your chamber very closely matches your sizing die).
Re: .308 neck or full resize
If you shoot the same brass from the same bolt action rifle, neck sizing is better. You only need to FL size or use a body die when the brass needs a shoulder bump. Excessive FL sizing can lead to case head separation.
Re: .308 neck or full resize
+1 for Galveston
I don't care how much better the brass is now compared to 5/10/50 years ago it is still brass and working it makes it hard and brittle the less you have to work it the longer it will last without anealling it.
Re: .308 neck or full resize
Thanks for the information, but you can see my confusion, as we have a split decision. I'm starting out with a full resize set, so will see ho wthat goes.
Re: .308 neck or full resize
If you are trying to wring out every last FPS out of it or maybe serious long distance target then I say neck size
but there is a lot more to brass prep than that.
Some of the guys shooting the 208 amax out of a 308 win do whatever they can to get that bullet going as fast as possible.
Long barrel, throated to hang the bullet out for a long COL, fire form and neck size which does make some difference with the right brass like win brass that has a large case capacity to begin with.
Some guys are getting around 2750 maxed out from the above setups over RL17.
I full length size my hunting ammo and with the 208 amax and with new brass I am getting 2550-2600 fps with the 208 gr amax out of a 22" barrel and that is fast enough for me.
Re: .308 neck or full resize
Bench rest shooters who are seeking to get the utmost accuracy from their rifles and "AMMUNITION" use simple neck sizing dies very similar to the Lee Loader.
[img width=282 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/misalignment-c.jpg[/img]
More case necks are pulled off center (bullet runout) by a improperly setup ball expander on standard reloading dies than any other cause.
[img width=284 height=450]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/misalignment-b.jpg[/img]
With the standard hunting rifle chambers we have on our factory Savage or Stevens rifles your accuracy will depend on how accurate each reloader is and how he sets up his dies. Neck sizing dies promote longer case life and sometimes better accuracy, sometimes full length resizing does a better job realigning the brass cases back to "zero" misalignment with the bore.
It all boils down to what "type" tools you have to help you reload.
[img width=600 height=244]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/7-17-201055522PM.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=410]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/7-17-201054345PM.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=350]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/7-17-201054719PM.jpg[/img]
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/IMGP4394.jpg
Headspace or more correctly head gap clearance and how you set up your reloading dies controls accuracy and case life.
The cases below were over resized in a full length resizing die without taking into consideration minimum "bump" on the shoulder of the case, all these full length resized cases failed due to case head separations.
[img width=600 height=352]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/308fail.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=239]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/308fail-2.jpg[/img]
Re: .308 neck or full resize
Majority of benchrest shooters (And we are talking about super competitive people.) I know Full length size their brass.
Re: .308 neck or full resize
+1 on what 82boy said I have heard and have seen that over and over.
Re: .308 neck or full resize
Correct - if you look at the neck size stuff pictured, it is for a 222. When the 222 was competitive, folks were neck sizing for maximum accuracy, but that was a LONG time ago.
Re: .308 neck or full resize
I think the best answer so far is for the OP to break the rifle in using whatever loads he likes, and then after he finds a load that the rifle shoots well-he should perform his own test to determine which brass prep actually makes the most accurate loads, and which brass prep keeps the brass in the reloading box the longest.
Try 10 cases that have been full length re-sized, and 10 cases that have only been neck sized after being shot in your rifle. Using the same bullet, seating depth, primer, powder charge weight, and then see which 10 shot group is best.
I will say that annealing your cases regularly will certainly help them last a little longer. I am of the opinion that neck sizing only, and shoulder bumping when necessary, will see the longest brass life. If it matters, I've never split a case anywhere other than the neck (before I started annealing), and I have not been one to F/L re-size very often usually opting for neck-sizing. Maybe it will happen to me one day, but so far I've been good to avoid it.
I'm guilty of placing too much value on what I read on the internet. Nothing better than testing things for yourself, with your rifle, and then posting your results. We'll be waiting.
Re: .308 neck or full resize
Quote:
Originally Posted by 82boy
Majority of benchrest shooters (And we are talking about super competitive people.) I know Full length size their brass.
I was going to contact the Federal Communications Commission and bring an age discrimination lawsuit against you and two other forum members, but then I realized that most of my reloading dies are older than you are.
The Sinclair Catalog still has these "old fashion" dies for the "chronological gifted" reloaders and forum members.
"You young whipper snappers!" need to watch the video below..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzsZsn-DurY
Re: .308 neck or full resize
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigedp51
I was going to contact the Federal Communications Commission and bring an age discrimination lawsuit against you and two other forum members, but then I realized that most of my reloading dies are older than you are.
The Sinclair Catalog still has these "old fashion" dies for the "chronological gifted" reloaders and forum members.
"You young whipper snappers!" need to watch the video below..........
I must say I laughed me butt off, on this post. You got me good. ;)
The Video is good, I love that 1980's lexan loading block, and old time Bonanza powder measure. I see he used oil to lube and clean the cases that must have been before imperial sizing wax was invented. I think I heard that new Journey album playing in the background. ;)
Nothing wrong with them old antique loading dies they sell in the Sinclair catalog. I use them and so do majority of competitive benchrest shooters. The new fad is to have two presses, a threaded press to full length size on, and a arbor press to seat bullets on.
The part I don't understand is why he is using a hammer on the sizing die, instead of that nice K&M arbor press in the background. Maybe its is a carry over from the cave man days of the need to beat on something.
Just joking in good fun on all of this. There is nothing wrong with the way he is loading the ammo, as you can tell by the shot placement at the end of the video. He shot a group that was probably in the mid .1's; Very respectable. I will say one thing I would kill for that consintricity gauge. Some of the older stuff is far better than the stuff out today.
I did see a no no in the video. Lee states that they do not recommend the use of federal primers in their hand loading tool. I do it, and so do many, but there is a possible danger in do so.
Getting back on track to the topic, there is more than one good way to skin a cat. What ever you choose to do on reloading is your choice. If it works for you, then do it. All I am saying is try different and new things.
Re: .308 neck or full resize
82boy
I've had enough, I contacted AARP black bag operations center, and some "Gray Panthers" will be paying you a visit.
(have you ever been severely beaten with canes and walkers by people with their pacemakers turned to "Maximum")
