Just wondering if anyone "Breaks" in their new barrels by using Kroil and JB bore paste prior to the first shot down the tube.
Been doing a little research and have come across some that recommend it to take out any "minor" machining marks, burrs, etc...
Opinions?
If you do use this method, How many strokes 50? 100? 200?
Bill In SC
I know some who think pennies in a well will grant you wishes too.
Seriously though, a "Non-Scratching" polishing type compound, won't remove much unless you want to spend a week at it. So will something that minor in the bore cause any issues?
Getting anything "broken in" simply means getting enough wear, for parts to mate to the point of harmonious operation. One way to cause this wear is to sit and stroke a brush full of toothpaste down the bore, the other is simply shooting it.
I suggest you choose the method that better fits the reason you bought the rifle. :)
Factory barrel or aftermarket? Factory barrels that i have owned have no such thing as minor tool marks. All mine have train tracks running thru the bore and aftermarket barrels are already lapped (at least the ones i buy) and the ones that are not lapped generally have a pretty good finish. As darkker said shoot it and enjoy it but clean it real good before you put the first bullet down it to ensure you remove any metal shavings or dirt that might have gotten in the barrel.
Personally I follow the method posted at the Savage web page http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/p...barrelbreakin/ I have for many years, my rifles shoot great and I'm set in my ways. I'm a believer in the clean and shoot method, many are not and some even claim that it does more harm than good. I find it improbable that shooting through a properly cleaned and lubricated bore would do any harm at all, and the few boxes of ammo it takes to follow the procedure shouldn't produce any undue wear. Though it seems like a lot of work I use it as a good time to zero my scope and work on load development and I see it as enjoyable time at the range. Not sure about starting with abrasives immediately before even firing a rifle and I do see where that could have the potential to possibly do more harm than good.
Guys.. Thanks for the replies. I had not seen that page on the Savage site. Will give it a go this weekend if the weather holds.Quote:
Originally Posted by big honkin jeep
@earl39 - This is on a new factory barrel that Savage just installed. Previous one had a defect, so they replaced it.
Some more on barrel break in from a famous barrel maker that doesn't believe in it. http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html also this has comments from Mr McMillan
http://www.snipercountry.com/Article...el_BreakIn.asp
What I do with factory barrels is clean with jb bore paste to remove any and all preservative and dirt from machining and it has nade it easier to do the break in clean and shoot method. I broke in a shilen 6 br barrel the same way and after a few shots it stopped coppering and is very accurate.
Never have seen a definition from any barrel maker of exactly what is being "broken in". Hey if it makes someone feel their rifle will shoot better after running an abrasive brush up and down it 50 times then more power to them.
Would 100 times be even better? As far as the statement on the Savagearms site about Precision Shooting magazine recommending "the use of a patch with 2 drops of oil after the cleaning so that you are not shooting with a dry bore." Say what!? Oh! Wait a minute. I get it. You just fire two fouling shots so you are shooting with a dry bore. Why didn't I think of that?
I like to do an ordinary quick cleaning to remove the residue in the bore then shoot it. If it shoots good right off why mess with it?
I never break in barrels anyway. If a barrel is good it doesn't need it and if it's bad breaking in won't cure it.
yes!Quote:
if a barrel is good it doesn't need it and if it's bad breaking in won't cure it.
I shoot with a very dry bore usually, meaning on my match barrel's after a match, I clean the carbon and powder fouling out, and then folow with several wet patch's of brake clean, then one dry patch to finish. They are stainless and I've never seen any rust at all. Also clean cold bore shot is right on the money and they do not copper up at all. I have seen a little copper when match barrels are new, but it'll go away after a few cleanings. I have a factory barrel that copper's up terrible, so I don't even bother with it any more.
I would ask the original poster what they expect to gain from “barrel break-in”. Improved accuracy? Less fouling? Easier to clean? All of these things?
Now that we know the question is in reference to a Savage factory barrel, this response may be helpful. I bought two Savage rifles in 2005. Both bores were extremely rough. When new, tight fitting cleaning patches would emerge from the muzzle abraded, or as if the rough edges of the lands had actually cut through the patch. I could sense how rough the bores were by the feel on the handle of the cleaning rod while working a bronze brush through the bore. At that time there was more hype regarding barrel break-in than we see today and many of the claims being made were hard to ignore. Having no first-hand experience with it I was curious to find out what effect the process might have with these two barrels. I shot them for a while prior to conducting a barrel break-in and documented their target performance and fouling characteristics. I followed the often recommended break-in procedure to clean with abrasives after every round for the first five rounds, then after every five rounds for the next 50 rounds, then after every whatever, until it no longer fouls. If you have never done this before, I can tell you that to do it properly can take all day, or even longer. And I can also tell you that these two barrels always copper and carbon fouled, they never stopped fouling during the entire time that I used them, either before or after break-in. They both eventually smoothed out somewhat after many shooting/cleaning cycles. They never reached the point of cleaning as easy as a hand-lapped custom barrel but they did improve in this respect over time. Accuracy was not noticeably improved with either of them. I eventually replaced them with custom hand lapped barrels. Accuracy with both guns improved dramatically at that point.
I have conducted barrel break-in on several other factory guns with similar results. I still do it to a limited degree but my expectations aren’t high. I feel it is worthwhile to do this to a factory barrel because they tend to be rough and smoothing the bore surface will generally reduce fouling to the point where you can shoot well for a while before accuracy begins to suffer. Cleaning frequently and the use of abrasive cleaners will obviously wear down the little "fish hooks" that grab the patches in a new barrel. Over time the bullets will lap the barrel to a degree, the powder gasses will erode the burrs left by the chamber reamer in the throat area, surface pores will fill in with hard carbon fouling, and even the burnishing of a bronze brush will help smooth it out. This can be done quickly by polishing a new barrel with an abrasive, or cleaning down to bare metal after every round, or it can be accomplished at a more leisurely pace. In any case the bore will eventually break-in, it just depends on the expectations and patience of the shooter.
Well said Fenrir, that is exactly how I feel, though you can explain much better. +1
As the original poster, I started the thread to see what the collective wisdom of the members of this board was on the subject.Quote:
I would ask the original poster what they expect to gain from “barrel break-in”. Improved accuracy? Less fouling? Easier to clean? All of these things?
There are numerous articles on the "net" both pro and con.
I'm a fairly new member to the Savage family, but not to the shooting or reloading sport. Been doing that 45+ years. Mostly in the Contender/Encore world and the competitive shotgun world. The out of the box accuracy,cost and ability to swap barrels around is what drove me to dive it. Currently have a stock .308 10FP that will make bug holes, a 7mm-08 Mod 11 which I recently purchased and will do 7's to 9's pretty much all the time unless I really screw it up and a 111XP that just recently came back from Savage after they replaced the barrel.
If you want to see some barrels that will drive you up the wall.. I have a few Contender barrels I swear were chambered on a drill press, and if you set a box of bullets next to them they start growing copper.:(
After remounting all the hardware on the 06, I got to thinking about the barrel and the idea popped in my head to create the post and see what the good folks here on the board thought. Simple as that.:cool:
As a good friend of mine once said "Barrel Break-in? Hell... plop it on the bench and shoot it like you stole it"... Just may have to give that a try.
Thanks for the opinions, information and the links I had not read.
Barrel break in...not my thing. I run a CLP soaked patch down the bore to remove and misc accumulated stuff out. Then a dry patch. Shoot it for my first range outing. Then maybe clean it. Then when ever my groups go to crap, I clean it.
WA LA !! Broken in!!
My new Axis HB in 223 is a copper magnet. I "broke it in" by shooting 5 single shots cleaning between each shot. Then did 3 3 shots cleaning between each set of 3. Then did 3 5 shot cleaning between each set. Don't know why I even bothered. It is still shredding patches when pushed though. Not as bad as it first was, but enough that you see it tearing the patches. This thing had what looked like raised edges on the rifling. I was thinking about going out and buying about 100 rounds of the Russian steel stuff to see if it would smooth the rifling up a little bit with the steel bullets that they use in them.
I think it's funny how almost everyone agrees lapping works. Yet only a very few take time to do it. (Myself included). Most will agree factory barrels can take 100-200 rounds before accuracy peeks. A little lapping would likely get the number down to a reasonable 40 I would guess. Seems it might save an average of 3 boxes of ammo and some extensive cleaning.
As to the break in I think of it like a cast iron frying pan. Season it before use and after scrubbing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomme boy
tomme boy,
There may be hope for your barrel. I have had a couple of barrels that I was ready to give up on because they fouled so heavily that I spent more time cleaning them than shooting them. Traditional barrel break-in techniques had little effect on them since they were about as rough as a fine metal file. Since I was prepared to replace them, I tried a trick cast bullet shooters sometimes use, I polished the bores with OOOO steel wool wrapped on a nylon bore brush. This will quickly round the edges of the lands and slightly open up the diameter of the bore. It will also round off the crown so that would need to be touched up afterwards. But it will definitely smooth out a rough bore and it’s easy to do. In my case it had no beneficial effect at all on one barrel but it noticeably reduced fouling in a couple others. It didn’t make them shoot any better, and I’m certain it shortened their usable life, but it made them more enjoyable to use, which was worthwhile to me.
I’m not advocating that everyone does this to all their rifles. I’m simply saying that this is an option to consider as a last resort for someone who is fed up with a junk barrel. And from what I hear there’s a lot of them out there.
Well I have some lead bullets coming with some lapping compound on them. The throat on this thing is very very short also. So I am going to fire lap it to smooth it up. I have had to do a couple of pistols that had a tight spot in the forcing cone area becuse of the barrel being over tightened. It works well as long you don't go crazy with them.
I think you should shoot it a bit before you go after the fire lapping. Clean it, dont clean it, just shoot it a bit.
I have also seen this on the last 2 I have purchased. Mod 11 7-08 and a Mod 111 30-06.Quote:
The throat on this thing is very very short also
I can only go about 50 rounds before the accuracy goes to heck. I have close to 350 rounds on it right now. It is not getting any better.
Barrel break in is like religion; everyone has thier own beliefs and customs. I purchased a Savage 111 Trophy hunter XP 30-06 and did several modifications before I ever shot it. One of those mods was lapping the bore. I used Wheelers 220 (three hundred strokes) then 320 (three hudred strokes) and then 600 (six hundred strokes). All of this was done with a 30 cal soft jag covered with cotton. I stoped and cleaned after every hundred strokes. I also never went clear through to the muzzle so as not to mess up the crown. The barrel was actually hot from friction. I could feel a big diference in smoothness when I was done. When I went to the range I was able to shoot three shot one MOA. I have no idea if it could have done this anyway. I dont consider it broke in either I just helped it along. I did it to remove tool chatter and anomalies to facilitate cleaning. Did it work? I "believe" it did:(
Other mods I did: I bedded the action, free floated the barrel and tang, Stiffened the fore stock, put a recoil reducer in the butt stock, replaced the factory rings with Warne steel maximas, put on a one piece waver base.