I am planning a trip to Wy. for P Dogs, I am bringing A 17 hmr for close shots,
an AR, a Savage 110 Varmint in 223, a 243, a 22-250, and just got a 308,
was wondering if anyone used a 308 with say 110 grain bullets on P Dogs?
Thanks
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I am planning a trip to Wy. for P Dogs, I am bringing A 17 hmr for close shots,
an AR, a Savage 110 Varmint in 223, a 243, a 22-250, and just got a 308,
was wondering if anyone used a 308 with say 110 grain bullets on P Dogs?
Thanks
I've seen videos of guys using 338 LM and 375 cheytac. That wind can really blow sometimes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9wtpZ-9QWg
Well depending upon the location, you can pretty much use any cartridge you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by SageRat Shooter
Mind you i do have a selection of the large cartridges such as the 338 Cheytac we use for long range deer hunting.
Its a personal call thing, but i just prefer the more traditional varmit type cartridges for prairie dogs.
First off when deer hunting you might be lucky to find a decent buck to shoot at during the entire season.
So you would probably be less apt to leave anything to chance with your cartridge choice.
On the other hand if the longer prairie dog shots are important for you to tell your friends about, then use whatever you need to get that done.
Just one of the things i meant when i said be very selective who you choose to go on a trip with.
I personally enjoy the shooting at multible targets thruout the day and hitting at least most of them.
I dont however wish to travel about 1800 miles each way just to be calling shots for somebody trying to set a personal prairie dog distance record.
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I've used a 204R, 223 and 243 on trips. Some of the guys I've been with have used 6.5CM, 308, etc for the long long shots. At 500 yds, a 223 bullet just punches a hole in the critter and it falls over dead, no helicopters or aerobatics, etc at that range for me. If you use a guide, ask what the ranges usually are for shots. Some guides prefer to set you up for the 400+ yd shots, and even advertise the 800/900/1000 yd shots with pictures.
I've been thinking about the 5mm Rimfire. I've got some rounds laid back.
Well its a very long trip from anyplace in the East to places like Wyoming.
There isnt really much difference as for distance wether you leave from Pa or Florida.
By and large were talking days in a vehicle regardless, so for me at least it totals 6 days in a car.
One trip is all it takes to get a handle on what you need for the next trip.
A 223 is a very good choice, but 400 yds is pretty much it for distance with any degree of accuracy, especially with wind.
I personally would be hesitant to take anything less. Again, its a long drive to be disapointed after you get there because of the guns you chose.
A 243 would be a better choice than a 308 with light bullets.
Anything 6mm or 6.5 in 308 sized cases will work well for the longer shots.
A 16 oz beverage can would be pretty close in size to a standing prairie dog.
So id suggest using those to practice at the longer distances with whatever guns you plan on using before you go if at all possible.
Expensive scopes arent a requirement either, but i would recomemend being familiar with your gun and scope before you get there.
i use a fixed 10x Burris tactical on my 223 and im very happy with it on that gun.
On my 22x250AI i use and older Sightron 4x16 variable. My 6mm has an older Leupold 6.5x20.
An older 12x fixed power Leupold with target knobs would be a very good choice on pretty much any prairie dog gun and they can bought very reasonably on Ebay. And they come with a lifetime factory warrenty.
I've had the grace to get out there and tag a few. Once in Wyoming and
the other, Western North Dakota. I took a 22/250 (borrowed) and one of
my RRA 5.56's. The 22/250 was worthless with it's 3x9 Leupold, and My
RRA 5.56 Bull barrel EOP with it's 4.5-30X50 XRS was the nut's untill the
wind kicked up. First 2 hours was prime shooting for me, the rest of the day
sucked. If you could not keep on with the high switching winds, It was better
to drop out and spot for the guys with the heavier artillery. Leader of the
pack used a .243 with heavy pills,and second place was a good ol' school
Ruger 77, .270.....If I get back out there, that SA284 of mine is going with
me.
Scope power is pretty much a personal thing. I can get by very easily with 10 or 12 power max for even the very long shots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuj'
For quite awhile i had a fixed 12x Leupold on my 18# 300 Norma, but neither of my sons were happy with it.
They need see the things eyes before their comfortable, so i sprang for an 8.5x25 and when i shoot it i turn the power down.
For many years i used an old 6x24 B&L Balvar on a 36” barreled 30x378, and i never needed more than 10 power with that.
But again, when my sons shot it they cranked it up as far as it would go.
But thats deer hunting, most groups of PA long range hunters tend to have one gun sitting on a bench, and whoever shoots uses that gun.
Prairie dogs are a totally different situation due to there being so many targets at the same time.
Not uncommon when you first arrive at a decent size town or colony of them too see 40 or more all standing up at the same time at various distances.
For someone seeing that for the first time it can be a bit mind bogeling. But again, when the shooting starts things can change quickly, especially with the closer ones. So start there and work your way out to the longer ones.
If your gonna insist on shooting at them at say further than 600 or so, then larger glasses on a tripod or a good spotting scope on a tripod is a must, as is a spotter calling out the shots for you while you shoot.
And thats also a game changer for the guns you take along.
I wouldnt be taking anything less than a 6mm, and better yet a 6.5 with 140s if it were me.
But now youve got 2 guys tied up trying to hit one prairie dog.
About the time your ready to touch of the shot, the thing decides to duck back down in his hole.
So now what? find another in the same area? or wait that one out till he decides to pop up again.
Not a very good way to utilize the short period of time i have on my trip in my opinion.
So rather than have hard feelings, work those things out before you leave home.
yes, gotta 20" rra varmint, muzzle end .920", weighs a ton. i never even seen a prarie dog, but used to farm, and squirrels biggest enemy. it shoots cheap ammo (wolf gold), 1.5" groups at 200 yds. being a novice, first had a cheap $70 scope bsa sweet .223 on it, and being a begginer, i thought the scope was losing its hold, cuz the bullets were straying so much. so put a swfa ss x16 on it, (way tooo much x), and same problem. turned out it was the wind, that caused the straying. it was a lesson to me. unbelievable how much the wind effects them shots. but i was shootin just shy of 400 yds though at the side of a trash dumpster. but, lookin back, that bsa wasnt that bad. now it sits under seat my pickup, and use it instead of binoculars. but happy for the $ on the rra (wilson barrel), to do that, on a two piece receiver too yet. love too killl crows and squirrels. them crows, so smart, its a challegeQuote:
Originally Posted by Fuj'
Ice Tea brings up another important subject, OPTICS, as in Binoculars.
If you visit various hunting/shooting websites as many of us here do, there will be lots of questions asked about optics.
What should i buy type questions, and as a rule there will be the (buy once cry once advice) given by quite a few who respond.
Quality binoculars have been being produced for longer than any of us have been alive.
The ones produced by the military as far back as WW2 are as fine as it gets as for quality even by todays standards.
What was lacking in those optics of that era was the lens coatings, as that had yet to be perfected untill the latter stages of the war.
If you were to have the opportunity to look thru a clean set of German, Jap, or U.S. binoculars of that era you will be amazed as to the quality of them.
Bausch and Lomb was a very large supplier of U.S. optics during WW2. After the war they produced a line of binoculars called the Zepher.
Jack O Conner could have had any binocular he chose to have, but he chose B&L Zephers. They are very light in weight, and very high quality.
You can easily spend $1000 today and even twice that amount for some of the top brand names. And surprisingly many people do, and will attempt to convince others that unless they do also they just own inferior glasses. But a Rolls Royce that has been parked in a garage for 50 years is still a Rolls Royce. And ditto with a quality set of binoculars. If you want to see someone sweat beads as big as hoarse turds, set up a clean set of B&L vintage glasses next to theirs and compare them side by side. And you can buy those Zephers on Ebay in excellant condition for $100 or even less.
Some will require cleaning, but not all. I have a set of 8x35s that never leave my truck and thats what i use for prairie dogs. I have a very old friend who called me last week to tell me he bought a set of 6x30s on Ebay at auction for $38. He will give them to a grandchild who lives in Colorado.
I have bought and given several sets to family members also. You can spend hours on Ebay browsing thru the list of used binoculars, some for almost zero money.
How far are you wanting to shoot? There's no wrong answer there, but some folks idea of "far" is another person's "mid" or "short" range.
I bring a mixed bag. Rimfires and a 22 Hornet for "close" range (up to 200), 223 and 22-250 are lower end of mid range (300-500), 243 upper end of mid range into lower long range (400-700) and the 6.5x284 is my longest poke rig (700-1100). The wind is the biggest variable, and when it starts blowing, the ranges come in. Also time of year, how much the dog towns have been shot over already, and lay of the land issues (property boundaries, or other restrictions). Some years the towns are good, teaming with "dumb" dogs that will let you continue to shoot them. Some years, the towns are near empty, or they've been shot over hard and all go down and stay down after the first few volleys. In that case, we usually relocate.
We usually start with the "close" rigs and close shots, as even in good seasons, the nearest dogs will go down and stay down after sustained shooting starts, especially when the bigger guns start in (increased noise). Once the chip shots are done, we start moving steadily farther out, going up in caliber as we go. I would not "waste" a big(ish) caliber gun on close shots. Unnecessary barrel wear and blast when a 17 hmr or even a 22 lr will suffice. Bring several guns, and 2x the ammo you think you may use. Our ammo consumption goes from close range is the highest, then mid range, then the long range ammo lasts the longest (takes more time to set up each shot as you go).
If you can only bring one or two guns (that's fine), I would probably bring a 17 hmr, and either a 223 or a 22-250. You can do a whole bunch of shooting with those, as even when the close dogs go down, the (either) centerfire 22's will keep you in the game. For me, the 2 guns I tend to put the most rounds through in an outing is the 22-250 and the 243. Followed closely by the 17 hmr.
Optics can be personal choice. Most of the time, you really do get what you pay for, unfortunately (I wish it wasn't the case, more $ for guns and bullets). I find that it's hard to look through a scope that isn't clear (optical clarity) for long periods of time. Gives me eye strain and headaches. Bear in mind, unlike deer hunting, when you're sitting on a dog town, you may be looking through your scopes for several hours a day. It matters (at least to me and my eyes). Magnification is also a personal choice. But bear in mind, some of this magnification (and clarity) will be used to identify targets at range. "Is that a dirt clod, a rock, or a prairie dog?" The better the scope, the easier it is to tell. I have one buddy that asks me that question all the time (on the dog town), "Hey, see that thing, second clump over from that rock? Is that a dog, or a clump of dirt?" I'll move my position to look at it, and half the time follow it up with a BOOM! "Yeah, that was a p dog." Which gets me a dirty look and a curse word. Lol. It can be a real challenge to tell what is a prairie dog and what is a dirt clod. Clarity of glass, and magnification (both) are key here. If I had to choose only one, I'd take clarity, but both together just make for a better outing.
Scopes with ranging reticals are handy for "unknown" distances. My Nightforce has a very handy retical (NPR-1) for this purpose. Can take less shots to dial in the distance that way. But we're talking quite a ways out there (1000+).
You need some field range reports for the area you're headed to. Prairie dog towns are on again, off again from year to year. Disease and/or poisoning programs can wipe out huge swaths of dog towns in a year. Is this public or private land? How late in the season are you going? Height of grass? If it's private or leased, has it been mowed? Or if it's leased for grazing, does someone have cows on it (or will they come trip time)?
For sure Slowpoke Jim has been there and done that. lol
Slight differences in opinions on any subject are par for the coarse.
I personally consider my rifle scope as an aiming device, period.
I never use it at all for locating game of any type.
For those who prefer prone shooting however, its pretty much a necessity to use the rifle scope for everything.
And of coarse there will be those who will use it even when shooting from a bench.
I prefer using binoculars for finding the target, then just sit them aside on the bench and align the gun on the target.
I have good friends who prefer using their large tripod mounted binoculars.
But quite often by the time they get from the glasses to the gun the dog is gone.
So again its a personal thing as to how you end up doing things.
If your shooting groundhogs or prairie dogs with any 30 cal rifle, there won’t be much left of them.
I like the .20 Beggs, .17 Ackley, .22/250 Ackley, .220 Arrow, .20 Vartarg and especially the Triple Deuce with 40gr VMax projectiles.
OK, The WIND WILL Blow!
You Can us small calibers but IF I was going to travel 2000 miles I would not.
Like I said the wind WILL blow, and hard, you may have to shoot in 30 mph plus, be prepared.
You MAY get shots under 200 yards but only like two, the become very shy after the first one goes off.
Is it a "private" hunt or public land? Public the dogs will be gun shy.
Have you been practicing at 600 yards? You better and have a round that can shoot 600 yards.
Laugh if you want a 6mm is the SMALLEST I would use. I use as a minimum my 6mm rem 55 gr Nosler at 4200 fps, 26" barrel, it's death at under 500 yards after that remember you shooting a 3" target in the wind on the ground.
PS take some thing to shoot off, bags or bipods minimum.
Another PS, try to stay out of sight the best you can they can see a truck for a LONG ways, we use full camo and try to use the natural cove if we can. A group of people walking in the prairie can be seen for a LONG ways too.
JUST my two cents.