.223 reloads for F Class TR

I am relatively new (5 yrs) to competitive shooting at 100-300 yards. My Savage 12 VLP in .223 with a 1:9 twist barrel has been a good shooter and learning experience. My best results have been with the relatively new Sierra TMK's in 69 grain over 22.3 grains of H223 which gave me 2865 fps. I also found a high OAL to be beneficial compared to the normal 2.260, I was at 2.285 with better scores. I have been getting 193-197 at 300 yrs with this load. Unfortunately, not good enough where I shoot. I recently opted to get a Shilein barrel with a 1:7 twist to shoot some heavier bullets. Now I have to embark on load development, probably with projectiles in the 77-80 grain range. Any advice on Sierra vs. Berger, what OAL to work towards, and best powder to use would be appreciated.

Have a Weather Warrior which has been rebarreled with a Shilen 26" 1-8" SS barrel.

For 73gr Berger Targets these have been my results to date at 100 yds.

Berger .224 73 gr. Target HPBT #BG22420
	Powder	C.O.L.	Start	Max	Most Accurate	Group
	Benchmark	2.260"	19.5	21.7	20.5	.148"
	H335	2.260"	20.5	22.7	22.0	.448"
	IMR4064	2.260"	19.3	23.5C	21.5	.214""
	Varget	2.260"	21.0	23.3	21.5	.155"
Untested	BL-C(2)	2.260"	22.0	24.5	24.5	.450"
Untested	VihtN140	2.260"	20.5	23.1
Untested	VihtN540	2.260"	21.5	23.8
Lot #	Caliber	Case	Trim Length:	Neck Bushing	Headspace DL	O.A.L.	Ogive	Primer	Powder Type	Charge
Benchmark	.223 Rem	Rem Match	1.755"	.246"	1.458"		1.950"	BR4	Benchmark	20.5
IMR4064	.223 Rem	Rem Match	1.755"	.246"	1.458"		1.950"	BR4	IMR4064	21.5
Varget	.223 Rem	Rem Match	1.755"	.246"	1.458"		1.950"	BR4	Varget	21.5

For Sierras:

Sierra .224 77 gr.Tipped Match King BT #7177
	Powder	C.O.L.	Start	Max	Most Accurate	Group
Untested	H4895	2.260"	20.0	22,6C
Untested	IMR3031	2.260"	18.5	21,3C
Untested	H335	2.260"	23.0	25.7
Untested	Benchmark	2.260"	21.5	23.5
	IMR4064	2.260"	20.0	22.7C	22.0	.374"
	BL-C(2)	2.260"	21.0	24,9	23.5	.251"
	VihtN135	2.260"	19.6	22.5	21.5	.435"
Untested	VihtN140	2.260"	21.0	24.7
Untested	VihtN540	2.260"	22.7	25.3
	Varget	2.260"	21.0	23.7C	23.0	.353"
Lot #	Caliber	Case	Trim Length:	Neck Bushing	Headspace DL	O.A.L.	Ogive	Primer	Powder Type	Charge
BL-C(2)	.223 Rem	Rem Match	1.755"	.246"	1.458"		1.930"	BR4	BL-C(2)	23.5
Varget	.223 Rem	Rem Match	1.755"	.246"	1.458"		1.925"	BR4	23.0	.353"

For 300 yards, Sierra or Nosler 80 gr bullets should be fine.

I don't play the FT R game but do dabble with the .223. 8208xbr is my new favorite powder in .223 with heavies and .308
light it with a cci 450, rem 7 1/2, or if you have them I prefer the wolf SRM. currently using a batch of LC09 brass but have some LC14 on deck when I shoot this lot up. I full prep it.

would say look to the 75 or 80 amax but it got replaced by the eld-m which i'm not sure is worth the premium they want to charge for them (I still have a chip on my shoulder and have refused to buy a box and try). the nice thing about the amax was the cost savings over berger or sierra. the new 70gr nosler RDF has some impressive #'s on paper but haven't hear any good reviews yet. price is right on these as well especially through sps.

Your new 1:7 twist barrel will be perfect for 80gr Berger VLD's. I find that they shoot well with Vihtavuori N-140 or Varger or IMR 8208 XBR; pick whichever you like or have on hand. Other bullets might come close to the performance of the Bergers and nearly all other off-the-shelf bullets cost less. However, I haven't found anything which performs better.

I shoot matches because I find competition fun. Part of that fun is having the confidence in my gear and load such that I think I have a chance to win. What I don't want is the regret associated with coming in second place because I'm shooting cheap bullets. I don't want to say to myself: "Yeah, he out scored me, but I saved 6 cents per bullet." For an F class match, that's about an extra $4.20. You get the point.

When I consider the overall cost of getting to and from a match, the uneasy feeling I would get by trying to save four bucks on my bullets simply isn't worth it.

I have found the Barns Match Burners 85 gr shoot a lot better in my 7 twist..Way better than Berger bullets with H 4895..If I do my part which is getting harder with age I can shoot five and cover them with a dime at 300 yards..And I think they buck the wind good as well..Can never get Varget around here for some reason..Oh yeah,I have the barns touching the rifleing as well..Not jammed just touching.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mozella

What I don't want is the regret associated with coming in second place because I'm shooting cheap bullets. I don't want to say to myself: "Yeah, he out scored me, but I saved 6 cents per bullet." For an F class match, that's about an extra $4.20. You get the point.

When I consider the overall cost of getting to and from a match, the uneasy feeling I would get by trying to save four bucks on my bullets simply isn't worth it.

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I don't compete but this makes a lot of sense.

kind of along the same lines of having a sports car that is supposed to run on premium but you put regular in to save a few bucks a tank.

What is the collective experience with pushing up on OAL? Before I got my new barrel, I had best luck with .020" increase in OAL compared to nominal for .223.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigo3100

What is the collective experience with pushing up on OAL? Before I got my new barrel, I had best luck with .020" increase in OAL compared to nominal for .223.

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There is no collective experience with adjusting OAL in F-Class competition because the rules require shooting one shot at a time. If you don't use a magazine, OAL is of no importance. OAL dimensions make sense if you want your reloads to fit into a magazine. Otherwise, forget about it.

Furthermore, there are significant differences in bullet length even in the same batch, so using OAL as a parameter when you're talking about accuracy and precision is nearly meaningless.

What you really want to talk about is the Cartridge Base to Ogive measurement. It has to do with "jump" or "Jam" which is the distance the bullet is set back from or pushed into the rifling. You should invest in an inexpensive bullet comparator tool which will allow you to measure your chamber so that you know how long a round should be if it is just touching the rifling. The measurement is made from the base of the cartridge to the ogive of the seated bullet. Using the correct tool along with a set of calipers makes this easy. Once you know where "zero" is, you can seat your bullet so they are shorter and have a certain "jump", often around .010" but sometimes more. Or, your rifle and load recipe may perform best if you jam the bullets into the rifling a little bit. Somewhere around .010" longer than the reference length is common. Of course there are folks who jam more than .020" and some people find the best performance with a jump of more than .100". But in many cases plus or minus .015" from the lands works best.

You have to test this for yourself though. There is no universal standard for seating depth.

Caution: Seating depth will definitely effect chamber pressure, so you certainly would not want to start out with a maximum charge weight and a seating depth to jam the bullet .020" into the lands. It might be your last reload.

Unfortunately all comparator tools aren't created equal so the actual dimension you use makes sense only for your tool, your bullets, and your chamber. That's not a problem because seating depth is referenced to how much shorter or longer a round is relative to a round which just touches the rifling. In other words, your CBTO measurement is quite likely to be different from mine even though we both might be shooting with a .010" jump.