New gun/build feeding issues(won't feed properly)...6mmXC

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03-03-2016, 01:19 PM
Clod519

New gun/build feeding issues(jamming)...6mmXC

New to the forum, 1st post and I'm looking for some guidance.At the suggestion of a site sponsor/vendor I'm posting my issue here in hopes of some ideas.

Here is the issue...

Got a new build in 6xc and the gun won't properly feed the cartridge with out jamming.

Gun:
Donor gun, savage 11 trophy hunter XP originally chambered in 308.(SA 4.4" spacing)
Left handed
Serial J7xxxxx (gun is new manufacture, within the last 11 moiths...this information is directly from savage)

Pulled the factory barrel and in stalled a 6xc criterion prefit.
Is sits in an Accuracy International chassis, with AI factory 308 mags(also tried a magpul)

Issue: when when cycling the bolt forward and picking up the round, the cartridge ends up jammed into the chamber with the case head higher than the nose of the bullet.

Think this way. When picking up the next round, the bullet nose works up the ramp, and at the exact time the nose starts to enter the chamber the base clears the mag.(and about the same time the shoulder of the case hits the top of the ramp) the timing of all this along with the force of the follower/or next round moving upward in the mag kicks the case head upward enough to where the case head is higher than the nose(essentially inverted) so it's pretty much entering the chamber from top to bottom. And from what I can tell, the actual nose of the bullet is driving into the area of the chamber where the case shoulder is. Where the nose hits in the chamber, accompanied by the downward angle of the cartridge, the bolt driving forward wedges the cartridge upward and locks down.(the case head is actually a little above the bolt at this time. taking off the pressure of the bolt allows the case to fall and properly align and will then feed.

What I've tried: cycling the bolt slower than a snail's pace will work, but that's not a fix....nor is single feeding the answer.
Bent the crap out of the AI mags feedlips in every way to no avail. Opening them up to where the lips barely hold the round has had some effect but not a 100% fix.
Ive ruined a magpul AI type mag with no success. Cut some off the spring, dremeled the lips and even cut them back to where only about 5/8" is holding the case.

Put the action back into the original savage stock, magazine and I get pretty much the same results.

Questions, is there any difference in savage receivers pertaining to specific calibers.This same gun is factory chambered in 204, 22-250, 243, 6.5cm, 260., etc models so I think those models would feed correctly? Especially the 22-250 & 243.

Talked to NSS about the issue and although the are great people to deal with and tried to help as much as possible.... they had no answers either.

Lastly im gonna put 308 barrel back in the original configuration and see if it cycles 308 dummy rounds.

Thank s and feel free to chime in with any advice or questions.
03-03-2016, 03:55 PM
35Whelenshooter

Can you post a couple of photos of the issue.
Are you using the crushed case as it shows on David Tubbs web site?
What are you using for cases?
03-03-2016, 03:57 PM
m12lrs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clod519

New to the forum, 1st post and I'm looking for some guidance.At the suggestion of a site sponsor/vendor I'm posting my issue here in hopes of some ideas.

Here is the issue...

Got a new build in 6xc and the gun won't properly feed the cartridge with out jamming.

Gun:
Donor gun, savage 11 trophy hunter XP originally chambered in 308.(SA 4.4" spacing)
Left handed
Serial J7xxxxx (gun is new manufacture, within the last 11 moinths...this information is directly from savage)

Pulled the factory barrel and in stalled a 6xc criterion prefit.
Is sits in an Accuracy International chassis, with AI factory 308 mags(also tried a magpul)

Issue: when when cycling the bolt forward and picking up the round, the cartridge ends up jammed into the chamber with the case head higher than the nose of the bullet.

Think this way. When picking up the next round, the bullet nose works up the ramp, and at the exact time the nose starts to enter the chamber the base clears the mag.(and about the same time the shoulder of the case hits the top of the ramp) the timing of all this along with the force of the follower/or next round moving upward in the mag kicks the case head upward enough to where the case head is higher than the nose(essentially inverted) so it's pretty much entering the chamber from top to bottom. And from what I can tell, the actual nose of the bullet is driving into the area of the chamber where the case shoulder is. Where the nose hits in the chamber, accompanied by the downward angle of the cartridge, the bolt driving forward wedges the cartridge upward and locks down.(the case head is actually a little above the bolt at this time. taking off the pressure of the bolt allows the case to fall and properly align and will then feed.

What I've tried: cycling the bolt slower than a snail's pace will work, but that's not a fix....nor is single feeding the answer.
Bent the crap out of the AI mags feedlips in everyway to no avail. Opening them up to where the lips barely hold the round has had some effect but not a 100% fix.
Ive ruined a magpul AI type mag with no success. Cut some off the spring, dremeled the lips and even cut them back to where only about 5/8" is holding the case.

Put the action back into the original savage stock, magazine and I get pretty much the same results.

Questions, is there any difference in savage receivers pertaining to specific calibers.This same gun is factory chambered in 204, 22-250, 243, 6.5cm, 260., etc models so I think those models would feed correctly? Especially the 22-250 & 243.

Talked to NSS about the issue and although the are great people to deal with and tried to help as much as possible.... they had no answers either.

Lastly im gonna put 308 barrel back in the original configuration and see if it cycles 308 dummy rounds.

Thank s and feel free to chime in with any advice or questions.

well all those modified 6mm BR rounds have feeding problems. The 6 BR was originally designed to be a benchrest single shot round.

by modifying the feed lips on the mag or messing with the spring tension you may correct the problem. Will it feed with just one round in the mag?
03-03-2016, 04:41 PM
LongRange

Quote:

Originally Posted by m12lrs

well all those modified 6mm BR rounds have feeding problems.

^^^this right here and i believe the 6xc is the most forgiving of the bunch.
03-03-2016, 05:24 PM
m12lrs

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongRange

^^^this right here and i believe the 6xc is the most forgiving of the bunch.

I believe you are correct.
03-03-2016, 05:43 PM
sharpshooter

There is not enough chamfer or bevel on the chamber mouth. The 6XC has very little body taper, and when caught on a square edge it has little wiggle room to align, hence the wedging.
Of all the 6mm target calibers, the 6x47 Lapua is the most forgiving.
03-03-2016, 06:23 PM
Clod519

Quote:

Originally Posted by m12lrs

well all those modified 6mm BR rounds have feeding problems. The 6 BR was originally designed to be a benchrest single shot round.

by modifying the feed lips on the mag or messing with the spring tension you may correct the problem. Will it feed with just one round in the mag?

sort of, i had to smooth out the hump/transition on the follower. it somewhat helped but not 100% of the time.
03-03-2016, 06:39 PM
Clod519

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharpshooter

There is not enough chamfer or bevel on the chamber mouth. The 6XC has very little body taper, and when caught on a square edge it has little wiggle room to align, hence the wedging.
Of all the 6mm target calibers, the 6x47 Lapua is the most forgiving.

id believe that.

and after messing with it for a few more hours here is some additional info.
im using norma brass....not sure about this question though "Are you using the crushed case as it shows on David Tubbs web site?"

i put the action back into the original configuration as a 308 in the savage stock and mag and it seemed to function as it should. it did have a hiccup or two when i ran it hard though. it didnt stop cold but you could definitely feel it hang.

i also put the 6xc barreled action in the factory savage stock and magazine and the 6xc choked in that setup too.

lastly, the 308 barreled action in the AI chassis choked on the 308 rounds as well.....so all ive done is add to the confusion.

one thing to note, these arent loaded rounds. meaning that they dont have the extra weight of the powder and they really seem to bounce around more when feeding and for sure the 6xc rounds seem really top heavy with that long bullet sticking out.

i took measurements when the case wedges and im almost certain that the bullet nose is ramming into the chambers shoulder. that would also make sense for the strange data i got from the limited load testing. if a few are hitting that hard into the shoulder area i would believe that seating depth and concentricity could be affected.???
03-03-2016, 06:42 PM
Clod519

and thanks for the replies. its appreciated.

also, i thought of a picture but there isnt very much to see but ill see about getting one.

crappy thing is i invested a decent amount of $ to build this and its not exactly panning out the way id hoped.
03-03-2016, 07:13 PM
m12lrs

you will have a really nice single shot. Mag length will no longer be an issue. That way you can get those 105 berger Vld's jammed into the lands 0.01 to 0.02 and shoot some awesome groups.
03-05-2016, 09:04 AM
GaCop

I gave up trying to get my 6 mm BR to feed and settled on single shot for it. As "m12lrs" stated, you'll be able to jam bullets and not have feed problems from a magazine.
03-07-2016, 02:30 PM
Clod519

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaCop

I gave up trying to get my 6 mm BR to feed and settled on single shot for it. As "m12lrs" stated, you'll be able to jam bullets and not have feed problems from a magazine.

That's where I'm at. But with the xc thats not an issue. You can get to the lands with no problems as it is. Either way thanks for the input. Noting like building a PRS gun that single feeds. Live and learn.......and if someone ever wants to build a savage repeater and runs across this thread......DONT TRY IT
03-12-2016, 10:13 AM
thebeardeddude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clod519

That's where I'm at. But with the xc thats not an issue. You can get to the lands with no problems as it is. Either way thanks for the input. Noting like building a PRS gun that single feeds. Live and learn.......and if someone ever wants to build a savage repeater and runs across this thread......DONT TRY IT

I'm sorry things didn't work out for your build. I run a 6xc with a 28" Criterion bull barrel in a Choate Ultimate Varmint stock with a blind magazine. 105 gr Amax seated .002 off the lands typically shoots 1/3 MOA or better and cycles through the (blind) mag fine.
03-12-2016, 03:58 PM
BoilerUP

I ran into a very similar issue with two different Savages in 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor. One was a 11 Trophy Pred Hunter in 6.5 in factory stock and in a M40 Medalist, the other a McGowen 260 on a Model 10 Action in a McMillan A5.

I think I was putting a little upward pressure when running the bolt slower and that incited the problem; actually found running the bolt faster reduced the incidence of it happening. When it did occur, I would ease the bolt back a hair, the case head would drop down a bit, and it would chamber normally.

Sold both Savages because my 700 RemAge doesn't choke like they did.
04-02-2016, 02:32 AM
vdub

I have same problem with my 116 in 7 rem mag. The bolt drives the bullet forward then, ping... the bullet pops out of the mag sending the base up and nose down. as the bolt continues forward it jams the bullet in the barrel throat. Savage sent me a new magazine which was only slightly better but still jams 4out of 5 times. did all the same things on the original mag as you did with same result. have to send the rifle all the way across country(Canada) to get it fixed just don't understand how they can send a rifle out of the factory in this condition
04-02-2016, 09:04 AM
LoneWolf

Everything in this thread is what I experienced and the reason I sold all my Savage Actions and built on a custom action in order to shoot PRS type matches.
04-02-2016, 10:15 AM
bsekf

I use all stagger feed long actions and have no trouble feeding short cartridges, I do understand the BR family would be the worst to feed (short and fat). I just make sure the cases are put in the magazine with the bases tight against the back. If I just shove them into the magazine and leave room behind them, they will tip and jam every time.