I just cant decide, axix or model 11 fcns....

[Herman]

With the accuracy and affordability of the Axis/Edge, I can see it being a stepping stone into long range shooting for many people. Once I saw how well I could shoot at 200 yards, I now want to push it further and would love to build a custom long range gun if I had the time and money.

[LHitchcox]

For me the choice is easy. I am a lefty and the Axis and Stevens do not come left handed, so I am stuck with the higher priced Savage 11. I called Savage shortly after the Stevens hit the market and asked if a left hand model would be released. Answer: no.

I am a big fan of the Academy Stevens for under $200. Add a 3-screw trigger from Northland and you have a bargain tack driver.

[CJ in WY]

A while back I was asking myself the same thing=Axis,Stevens or Savage?
I was looking for a lite/cheap truck gun that could be used for deer/goats so the choice was easy=25-06 Axis. Workt the trigger a little to get it not god awfull, throw it in the truck with a little load work it was easily Minute Of Deer to 400 yards.
If I liked the accutrigger(wich I dont) the Savage would be a good choice.
If I could use the 223 for deer I would have gotten a Stevens just in case I wanted to improve it to match my needs a little better.
Sometimes cheap works and other times you will end up spending more being cheap. If you need a great trigger the $100 you spend on a replacement trigger for the Axis might be better spent on a better factory gun??

[rez187]

the accustock and accutrigger the recoil lug the metal mag release all add up to an easy decision the 11 is by far the better choice. is there better triggers and better bedded stocks yes but for the money the savage accutrigger and accustock represent a great deal!

if you live anywhere it get cold tell me how long you think an axis/edge magazine release is going to last? that plastic is not gonna last long as it flrxes and bends in cold weather. can you say design flaw?

[dacaur]

Well, I shot it, and I have to say, I think the gun can shoot better than me so far.... I coat wadded up on top of a bag makes a poor shooting rest, apparently.... ::)

First 3 shots.... first shot missed the paper (at 100 yards) because the shot surprised me... :o I had the safety on and tried to pull the trigger, when it got to the point i was thinking "wait, the trigger isnt THAT heavy" I remembered the safety, took it off, looked back through the scope, got on target and started pulling the trigger again, but since I had just been pulling really hard, it went off WAY before I was ready.... ;D Two and three were about 4 inches apart. I cleaned the gun then, and again after each 4 rounds. Not a 100% cleaning, but about 80-85%....

No groups to speak of until the last mag (rounds 12-15), which shot 2 within an inch, and the other two within an inch, both groups about 3 inches apart...

Again, I think it was just the lousy rest, but I did notice the stock was touching the bbl. I had seen it before but being excited about a new gun, didn't really think about it, but the bbl is noticeably closer to the right side of the bbl channel than the left, and is touching along the last few inches of stock . Today I took it apart and sanded the stock so its got some clearance, will try to find a better rest and shoot again....

Need to decide if i want a bipod or just find better rests when I shoot...

[Herman]

....took it off, looked back through the scope, got on target and started pulling the trigger again, but since I had just been pulling really hard, it went off WAY before I was ready.... ;D


I had a similar thing happen while I was deer hunting. I was using my dad's gun. I have the same gun, just in a different caliber, so I didn't shoot it before hand. Deer came out, I removed the safety, touched the trigger and BOOM! Total miss. Managed to get the deer on a follow-up shot. Later he tells me, oh yea, the trigger has been worked. It was way lighter than my gun.

When I shoot at the range I have a rest under the forearm and the butt of the stock. Get a good rest and a bean bag rest for the butt and that will help improve. The more I remove "me" from the shooting, the tighter the groups.

Also, shoot some more. My groups really tightened up after 70-100 rounds. Try different ammunition as well. I can't get under 3" groups with some ammunition. You'll get best groups if you reload, but can get excellent groups with factory ammo once you find what your gun likes.

I also shoot worse...or at least have in the past..... with larger calibers. I have a flinch and honed my skills with a .22LR so I didn't have to worry about recoil and could just focus on the basics.

[rez187]

if i owned a savage that shot 3-4 inches i would consider it a "lemon" from savage. savages shoot much better than that unless somethings wrong (shooter).


i think they called it edge because its on the edge of being Remington quality (poor)!

[dacaur]

Well, sent rounds 17-36 down the bbl today.... still no groups to speak of.... I had a slightly better rest today, but I think I just need to get a sandbag... I would get a two within an inch, then two in random spots.....

I really have to say, I hate the trigger.... It breaks clean but its too darn heavy.... I think I'm going to get a light spring and see how that is, Ive read in a couple places that does the trick... if I could get it down below 4# I think I could do better....

We will see....

[DoubleUp]

It takes some practice and honing of skills to be a consistent sub moa shooter, and lighter rifles that are in larger calibers are harder to shoot because of the flinch factor. It will all come together for you I'm sure. My A/E didn't really start printing tight until I got above 100 rds down the tube. It would shoot sub moa, but not sub .5 until I shot it a good bit. Both the 223 and 308 will normally shoot many thousands of rds. before wearing out a barrel, and the more you use it the better you'll become. Lightening the trigger will make a tremendous difference.

[bigtoe]

I just bought an axis/edge in. 223 and am very happy with it. I wouldnt consider it the edge of Remington quality as posted earlier. It probably will not set in the gun cabinet with my other 4 Savages because it will be in my truck. Topped it with a Nikon 6-18x40 Buckmaster i had in the safe and after about 20-30 rounds got it to group .65 at a 100 yds with Hornady 55gr v-max and 22.5 gr of H335. I own 2 model 11, 1 116, and a 110. Is it as nicely built as any of my other Savages? No. Does it perform on par with them? Yes, its a Savage. My. 02 worth.

[Herman]

...group .65 at a 100 yds with Hornady 55gr v-max and 22.5 gr of H335.


I'm using 25 gr of H335 under 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tip and I'm getting just under .5 (7/16" to be exact).

[bigtoe]

I have some 55 gr Nosler Ballistic tips but havent tried them yet. Might be time to load up a batch. I did want to ask rez187 if he had ever shot the axis/edge as to why he thinks they are Remington quality. A 3" to 4" group does not indicate the gun is a lemon or that the shooter is at fault. Any number of variables could cause the gun to group that way. My 110 .270 hates factory Federal loads. Group was 3.5" to 5". Remington CorLokt shrunk it to a little over 1" group. Handloads made it a tack driver. My 116 30-06 loves factory Federal loads and Remington CorLokts but hates Winchester ballistic tips. Every gun is different. There are to many variables to check to just say the gun is a lemon or the shooter is at fault. Especially when the gun is not in your hands.

[dacaur]

yea my problem could definitely be the ammo too, since I have only tried one type yet... saving my brass because I'm going to start hand loading this summer... Next time I go out Ill pick up a box of something different to try... It would be too bad if it was the ammo, I can get this for $12.99/box..... Remington in a green and white box.... I bought a bunch figuring even if its no good, I still have 80 brass cases to reload later... I wanted to go back and buy a bunch more next week, but now I might wait to see if my problem is the ammo or me, I'm going to have a couple other people shoot it next Sunday, one ex-army and one current army.... and I will be bringing a couple sand bags.... cant afford a nice rest, and dont want to get used to using one anyway since I wont have it out hunting....

[Herman]

This is what I use for a front rest - http://www.cabelas.com/product/MTM-Front-Rifle-Rest/741956.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3D searchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProduc ts%26Ntt%3Dmtm%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26WTz_l%3DHeader%25 3BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=mtm

And then one of these (the rear one) for the butt - http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Shooting-Accessories/Benches-Rests|/pc/104792580/c/104769180/sc/104212080/Cabelas-Un-Filled-Shooting-Bags/733565.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshoot ing-shooting-accessories-benches-rests%2F_%2FN-1100226%2FNs-MIN_SALE_PRICE%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104792580%25 3Bcat104769180%26WTz_stype%3DGNU

Won't break the bank and makes for a solid enough rest. And buy up and shoot the cheap ammo. That's how I get my brass.

[bigtoe]

Dacaur, the Remington ammo your talking about in the green and white box is probably the UMC ammo. Herman is right on to buy the ammo and get your brass. Wally world used to carry a little gun vice that would fit your needs but aint nothing wrong with sand bags. Really you neex to try several different brands like you said and also a couple of different weights. Some guns like light bullets some like heavy. I would also check your scope and mount to make sure everything is good and tight. A loose mount gave me fits for weeks. I was about to sell the gun when I decided to try a differnt scope and found the mount was loose. Groups tightened up immediately and humbled me at the same time. Getting your buddies to shoot the gun is a great idea. Keep us up to date on your progress.

[rez187]

im lucky enough to have worked part time in a large gun shop and as such was able to shoot just about every gun we sold including many cooper models (i actually got to meet dan cooper) i agree there are tons of variables i own 6 savages and i just think savage did a poor job on the axis/edge. i am still a savage fan just dont think as this post started as whats better the axis/edge or 11fcns in my mind they are sooo far apart in quality that its obserd.

[bigtoe]

Rez187, I agree that the quality of the axis/edge is not near that of an 11fcns. I think the OP was not asking about which one was better quality but asking which one would better suite his needs with the list he gave. My reason for getting the axis/edge was to have a gun that I wouldnt mind getting scratches when its in my truck beating around the farm. I dont want to scratch up or tear up my. 22-250 while going through rutts and mudholes on back roads. I think these guns were made so fancy rednecks wouldnt mess up there favorite rifle. I do consider myself a fancy redneck by the way. LOL

[dmpowder]

if you live anywhere it get cold tell me how long you think an axis/edge magazine release is going to last? that plastic is not gonna last long as it flrxes and bends in cold weather. can you say design flaw?


Had my Edge out in -22F weather while coyote calling and it held up just fine! Sounds like you have a thing against the Edge/Axis rifles for some reason?? Could it be because the $300 gun shoots just as good as your $600+ gun??

[bootsmcguire]

if you live anywhere it get cold tell me how long you think an axis/edge magazine release is going to last? that plastic is not gonna last long as it flrxes and bends in cold weather. can you say design flaw?


Had my Edge out in -22F weather while coyote calling and it held up just fine! Sounds like you have a thing against the Edge/Axis rifles for some reason?? Could it be because the $300 gun shoots just as good as your $600+ gun??

Does it shoot as good? Most likely. With right loads I would bet that it could. However the first poster was only commenting on the Mag release. Will a plastic mag release last as long as a metal one? I highly doubt it.

Is it a design flaw? No. The Edge/Axis was designed to be an entry level rifle to compete with guns like the Remmy 710/770, and the Wal-Mart version Mossbergs, etc. Does it do that? Yes. Is it better than the competition in that class? Yes.


Unfortunatly to get all the features that the Edge/Axis has in that Entry Level Class price Range, some things were just not going to be made as well. Looks like the mag release is one of the things that suffered, and in my opinion so did the trigger, but again thats just my opinion.

[dacaur]

Does it shoot as good? Most likely. With right loads I would bet that it could. However the first poster was only commenting on the Mag release. Will a plastic mag release last as long as a metal one? I highly doubt it.



It depends on the particular plastic its made out of. Many polymers will far outlast metal in that type of application (mag release tab)
Just because its "plastic" doesn't mean its inferior.

People make many assumptions. One being that just because a particular feature is on an inexpensive rifle, and its not the way "everyone else" does it, it MUST be junk, right?
Just like the "new" poly trigger guard on ruger 10/22's. Its different from what it used to be so it must be junk, but those that have tried both with an open mind report they cant tell the difference, even on worked triggers.