Savage Target Series specs & tolerances?

[snowgetter1]

Sell the barrel.

[memilanuk]

Welcome to the wonderful world of the .260 Remington.

In order to fit in most short action magazines, the regular .260 reamers are short throated and end up seating the bullets way deep into the case. It's not ideal, but in and of itself, not dangerous. Factory .260 ammo loaded for 140grn bullets comes this way, and as another example, pretty much every single round of 5.56 or .223 Rem ammo loaded with 75-77gn mag-length ammo is like that.

In the situation of the .260 Rem, the problem comes from the way people form cases for it. Necking down Winchester .308 brass usually isn't a problem, as its still not too thick by the time final sizing is complete. Using Lapua .308 where neck-turning is often required, or necking up Lapua .243 where the base of the neck used part of the (much thicker) shoulder, is where you start seeing donuts forming. The problem can be addressed by using regular Remington .260 brass, or inside neck reaming to take out the donut.

The real rub is that even with long-throated variants like the 6.5-08... its hard to really use all the available case capacity. Most 'max' loads with powders in the Varget to H4350 burn rate will still have a lot of air space inside the case. H4831SC still doesn't use it all. I know one person who used H1000 and a long drop tube, but it still didn't go appreciably *faster* for the amount of work he put into it. Individual rifles with 'fast' barrels aside, 43-44gn H4350 isn't going to go as fast as 48-50gn from a 6.5-284 (which also has a poop-load of air-space with max loads). The air space is both the bane and the boon of the .260 Rem - yeah, it ain't really desirable to seat a bullet that deep, but it ain't like you're doing anything other than taking up unused case capacity - it certainly isn't going to be restricting your powder charge much if any.

All that aside, a .260 Rem is still a good all-around cartridge - it just ain't the fastest, the most accurate, etc. People have tried fairly hard to make it run in 600-1k BR - none have been successful that I know of. Where it excelled for a long time was the most horsepower in terms of high BC bullet at a given speed that you could pump out of a short action magazine, both for NRA XTC and for 'tactical' matches. NRA XTC shooters generally used the 6.5-08 variant with 120gn bullets for the mag-fed stages @ 200-300 and loaded 140s long for 600+. The tactical guys... just stuffed the biggest bullet they could find in there and seated to mag length. The Lapua 123 Scenar and Norma or Berger 130 VLDs also gained popularity by bridging that gap somewhat - higher BC than the other bullets traditionally used for mag length. Custom bottom metal (i.e. Wyatt for Remington 700s) that allow longer throated versions is usually *very* popular with custom builds. Given the length of Savage's short-action magazines, it is a shame that they couldn't have given the gun a longer throat - but they usually get SAAMI spec reamers, which for the .260 are shorter than optimal.

Now you know why they 'invented' the 6.5x47L and 6.5 Creedmoor - the benefits of .260 Rem as being capable of feeding from a short-action magazine, with all the excess (and unused) capacity taken out by shortening it and moving the shoulder back.

You got what you asked for when you ordered that cartridge - literally.

[jinx-)]

thank you memilanuk!
Yes indeed, I got what I paid for, 260 it is. I'll swap barrel if it won't shoot. Max OAL for 139 Scenar shows 2.840" and Nosler CC 2.760".
Question, if I to extend freebore in this chamber just a bit would that give any edge?

[dwm]

Ok, so the 260REM Lapua brass is shipping now, I got some last week.

No need to mess around with upsizing and down sizing.

The 260REM Nosler brass isn't too bad either.

Also, if you try Ram Shot Magnum you will get the H1000 burn rate and still fit in the case (maybe not with that short throat of Jinx-) ...

Just a thought.

[jinx-)]

dwm, yep we already talked about it ;)

[Senderofan]

frustrating yes, feels like I wasted 1K for nothing... here is what max seating depth looks like in my chamber using 140 grain bullets, that's touching lands.

http://imageshack.us/m/851/7648/bulseatd.jpg

one bullet is 140 gr Nosler CC other 139 gr Lapua Scenar


I messed up when I purchased the reamer for my .260 Improved....the heavier bullets were seated deeper than what yours is. Purchased a "Throat Reamer" and lengthened the Leade of my chamber. My rig is designed to thrive on 139-142 gr. bullets. Perhaps your chamber could be fine tuned with a throat reamer and increasing the Leade?


Wayne

[dwm]

Jinx-) maybe Sinman or someone would ream that throat of yours out a little longer.

He was offering to rechamber barrels very reasonably not too long ago.

Can you get the barrel off yourself?

[jinx-)]

If I'm going to get new barrel it will be Shilen or Krieger, if I to spend money on new barrel why not get the best. Sinman, I can't recall anything from him, who is he?

About new throat for this chamber, currently I'm researching gunsmiths in my area to do this job, so far I left bunch of messages, but no reply. I think if I can get throat extended to seat 140 gr nicer it will be fine.

[319]

I can't imagine having the throat lengthened would cost nearly as much as a new barrel. But as it has already been pointed out, it may not do any thing for you.

[Dennis]

Sinman, I can't recall anything from him, who is he?

www.sin-arms.com

Devin is very maticulus and takes pride in his work. He should be able to to anything you need!

[jinx-)]

If I can't find anybody to do it close to home I will try Sinman, why not.

here is few more groups, but I blame wind for horizontal spreading, it was gusting 25 mph, vertical wasn't me 98%.

http://imageshack.us/m/41/8263/hundredyard3.jpg

[jinx-)]

Here is what I found on Hornady website:
"By loading longer bullets and seating them farther out so they'll touch the rifling - making powder charge adjustments as necessary, of course - accuracy can often be improved."
http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/internal

So I think I might have a shot in increasing accuracy with extending freebore.

[tipper999]

So you can only seat to mag length where would that 140VLD be seated in the case then ???

[jinx-)]

This chamber allows Max OAL for 139 Scenar shows 2.840" and Nosler CC 2.760". Magazine will let 3" so there are still room left, only if chamber would allow it.

[Senderofan]

So you can only seat to mag length where would that 140VLD be seated in the case then ???


In my Remington.....They are at least 1/8" or so too long to load in the magazine. For me...I don't care since I use it as a single shot.

Sorry I had mentioned lengthening the freebore when someone else mentioned it. But, I wanted to share that I had to do the very thing to seat the heavier bullets out to where they need to be.

I'll try and post a picture....The round on the left is a 140 gr. seated to magazine length and my original chamber specs. The round on the right is my new chamber spec. The OAL difference is 0.18".


http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp359/Senderofan/P5160348-1.jpg][/img]


Wayne

P.S.

This is obviously regular 260 brass and not the improved case.

[jinx-)]

That's exactly how I would like my loads to look like and I don't care about magazine, I would like to use follower in the single shot mode. Called local gunsmith today, he told me 150 buck to get freebore extended, I think this job should cost around 30 - 40 bucks, takes just few minutes to do it on the lathe. I heard it can be done by hand.

[319]

Ask Devin, he seems to be pretty reasonable. Yes, it can be done by hand.

[jinx-)]

Right now I'm waiting on bore scope to get this tube inspected, untill I know for sure that tube is good I'm not sending it anywhere,
its something fishy about it, just look at this crown, I thought target crowns supposed to have 60 degree edges along muzzle just like this:
http://img804.yfrog.com/img804/3200/crownh.jpg

but on my rifle it doesn't, when I insert q-tip it traps cotton along the edges:

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/7476/crown2.jpg

and the perpendicular tool marks resulting heavy copper buildup specially in the critical section before muzzle:

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5784/crown1.jpg

here what target crown looks like on my TC ICON Precision Hunter, this thing is a shooter 0.25" 5 shots 100 yards.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9656/norwear2.jpg

[r29l20]

Sounds like you just found your problem, or a problem anyway. :)

[memilanuk]

Muzzle crowns... have been, and continue to be... one of the factory's weak spots, IMO.

That said, the one on my 12 LRP 6.5 CM looks much as yours does, and doesn't seem to be holding it back much. Maybe its just a matter of yours being just a fuzz worse, just enough to matter? A recrown shouldn't cost too much. I'm getting a brake put on mine sometime this summer/fall/whenever the 'smith I use has an opening; I'll probably have him touch up the crown when he has it chucked up in the lathe already.