New Savage LRP and questions

[jinx-)]

Yesterday I added new Savage to my collection, this one I think is a beauty, its 12 LRP 260 REM.
It seems 260 is getting popular this days ::)
The first issue I faced is when I tried to install 1 piece 20 MOA scope base, which I used on Savage 12 short action, the rail is made to fill gap, but target action eliminated such so it won't fit. I need to get new rail designed for target action, right now I have two piece bases. So any recommendations on 20 MOA rails for target action?

Second: I'm developing loads for 139 - 142 grain bullets, those are long and pointy, having 1:8 twist this barrel should handle them without problem, but the chamber is cut in such way so I have seat bullets dip, such seating is reducing space volume allowance, thus reducing speed, which reducing range for this rifle.
I haven't developed any loads for it yet, but during my test-fire, it produced number of good groups, I only had 40 rounds in one session.

Third: Heavy copper buildup... Any recommendations on bore lapping - polishing?
Right now I have 2 choices available, one polish it with J&B, another to do fire-lapping with KG-2, the last one should work like Tubb's bore polishing system.

[iamsniper1]

Yesterday I added new Savage to my collection, this one I think is a beauty, its 12 LRP 260 REM.
It seems 260 is getting popular this days ::)
The first issue I faced is when I tried to install 1 piece 20 MOA scope base, which I used on Savage 12 short action, the rail is made to fill gap, but target action eliminated such so it won't fit. I need to get new rail designed for target action, right now I have two piece bases. So any recommendations on 20 MOA rails for target action?

Second: I'm developing loads for 139 - 142 grain bullets, those are long and pointy, having 1:8 twist this barrel should handle them without problem, but the chamber is cut in such way so I have seat bullets dip, such seating is reducing space volume allowance, thus reducing speed, which reducing range for this rifle.
I haven't developed any loads for it yet, but during my test-fire, it produced number of good groups, I only had 40 rounds in one session.

Third: Heavy copper buildup... Any recommendations on bore lapping - polishing?
Right now I have 2 choices available, one polish it with J&B, another to do fire-lapping with KG-2, the last one should work like Tubb's bore polishing system.


"Advanced Copper Removal for Gun Barrels,works for me.thought my rifles were clean until I tried this.
Copper Fouling definitely degrades the accuracy of your gun barrel. Getting the copper out the traditional way with gun solvent, patches, brushes, (and a lot of scrubbing) is too time consuming for most shooters... and it's a lot of dull physical effort. Here's the secret to effortless copper removal:
Cross-Treatment with Butch's Bore Shine and Wipe-Out Bore Foam - We use Butch's Bore Shine for light copper removal during barrel break-in periods and afterwards for quick general bore cleaning. On heavy copper fouling, the Butch's will continue to dissolve copper, but you can be running patches through all day and they still come out blue. So, we use something different for heavy copper fouling... The Wipe-Out Bore Foam we use is extremely effective at copper removal, but it has to soak the bore for an hour or more. The interesting thing is that these two treatments seem to compliment each other. The Wipe-Out will remove a ton of copper with little or no effort but then it'll leave a little that repeated applications won't remove... almost like the left-over had been desensitized to the Wipe-Out. These Wipe-Out left overs come right out when we run a few patches of Butch's through the bore.
Here's an Example - A customer brought in a World War II Nagant rifle a few months back. We foamed the bore for an hour and ran a patch through... it came out purple, there was so much copper fouling. We foamed it for another hour and the same thing happened. A look down the barrel and copper residue had lifted to give a furry appearance. So we ran a brush back and forth with Butch's to break up the loose copper. Then we ran a patch through to clean out the residue. We foamed it with Wipe-Out and left it overnight. Next day a clean patch came through purple again. We foamed overnight again and a clean patch came through light purple. One more Wipe-Out foam treatment and we had patches coming through clean. However, a look down the bore showed some copper streaking was still there. That's when a few patches of Butch's Bore Shine did the trick to finish the job. This was an extreme case of copper fouling in a 60-70 year old rifle with decades of copper fouling and pitting. Cleaning out the copper with traditional methods would have taken a tremendous amount of work. Using Wipe-Out and Butch's Bore Foam got it all out with almost no effort... just a little patience to let the cleaners do the work.
Finish with Clenzoil - Once you've got the copper out, run a patch down the bore with some Clenzoil on it. Clenzoil is a lubricant and cleaner in its own right. But also, it tends to give the barrel and ability to resist fouling".

[jinx-)]

Thank you iamsniper1!
I don't have problem removing copper buildup, I use something else without harmful ammonia, KG-12 it removes tons more copper then the product you listed. Cleanbore test few copper removal substances and here what their test showed: http://www.cleenboreusa.com/kg/kg12testresults.asp So my main concern is factory barrels and its imperfections which are causing copper to stick to the barrel surface. For example most custom barrels do not have copper issue, because they are polished and there are no place for copper to get stuck. There are many know procedures such barrel break-in which smooth surface of the barrel which in return reduces copper buildup to a minimum, one of the procedures is to fire one shot then clean. Such procedure involve great amount of time and good ammo. I'm looking for alternatives to fire&clean method using bore polishing compounds, which will polish barrel surface without firing.

[iamsniper1]

"harmful ammonia"none in any of the above.
I know some guys use valve lapping compound,very fine grit for barrels,others,me included,shoot a few hundred rounds
down range.

[jinx-)]

iamsniper1, see this "We use Butch's Bore Shine for light copper removal during barrel break-in periods and afterwards for quick general bore cleaning. On heavy copper fouling, the Butch's will continue to dissolve copper, but you can be running patches through all day and they still come out blue." the word blue gives away ammonia, that's what it does when comes in contact with copper. As far shoot and clean, that's what I'm basically doing. Good thing I handload my ammo, because cheapest ammo for 260 at wall mart 33 bucks for 20, so by the time I'll be done with break-in for the price ammo wasted I could buy custom barrel.

[bgc]

I have had some success with JB on reducing the amount of copper buildup. My plan is to use the Tubbs once I destroy the throat.

[jinx-)]

bgc, about throat, I think for me to use long pointy bullets throat on my barrel needs to be extended. I thought whole purpose of LRP to use those long bullets, but why Savage decide to used short throat for their Long Range Target makes no sense. That's what most people use to reach long range, long bullets with high BC.

[jinx-)]

Loosk like I asked to few questions... ???

[Buster95]

Do you have pics of your gun? I'm interested in the same rifle same caliber too.

[helotaxi]

the word blue gives away ammonia, that's what it does when comes in contact with copper.

Any chemical that oxidizes copper comes out blue. Ammonia is far from the only one. Oxides of copper are blue, that's all there is to it. Basic chemistry.

[bgc]

I wonder if they intend you the burn out some of the throat breaking in the incredibly rough barrel?

[ellobo]

Four X steel wool on a jag Will smooth it out and not hurt the barrel. Just add a little oil to the wool.

El Lobo

[jinx-)]

I will get to the pictures still trying to get right 20 MOA rail put on, I'm grinding and polishing the one I have, I think I almost got it...
There are few pictures out already with LRP you can find some here: http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,41204.0.html

About copper in my barrel, well it created 6 lines bright red on lands and few lines in between, this lines in some places wider, it looks like surface in this spots attract more material then other. I'm thinking about fire lapping by applying KG-2 to the surface of the barrel, then fire 10 shots, then clean. Either way if surface stay rough I will get custom barrel for it, if I will overcome this issue I will need to get some throat job done on it.

About long bullets and short throat chamber, I need to find gunsmith, not an average Joe, I want it to be done right, this riffle requires longer throat to shoot 140 gr match bullets, otherwise I have to sit bullets more then a half in the case, this bullets like 1.35" long some even more, having 0.6" occupied by the bullet inside of the case is unacceptable.

About ammonia and chemical reaction, I'm sorry if I'm wrong. I'm just not used to see blue anything, KG-12 comes out dark brown when dissolving copper.

[jinx-)]

Just removed HS Precision stock to inspect action, the HS stock seems to be well made, much better quality then B&C I had to work on last year, the aluminum bedding block is not made to fit this action, this bedding blocks supposed to hug around action firmly, but this action only rest on hairline portion of the block. This is unacceptable, I will attempt to skin bedded, but more grinding and polishing it first. The front and back action screws were overtightened, so I set them to 30"/per pound and 25"/per pound. Will need to get some liquid still epoxy to get action bedded.
I think HS stock used on my LRP was never meant for target action, since it has DMB it was probably made for 10, or 12 varmint action, this is just my theory.

[Buster95]

Just removed HS Precision stock to inspect action, the HS stock seems to be well made, much better quality then B&C I had to work on last year, the aluminum bedding block is not made to fit this action, this bedding blocks supposed to hug around action firmly, but this action only rest on hairline portion of the block. This is unacceptable, I will attempt to skin bedded, but more grinding and polishing it first. The front and back action screws were overtightened, so I set them to 30"/per pound and 25"/per pound. Will need to get some liquid still epoxy to get action bedded.
I think HS stock used on my LRP was never meant for target action, since it has DMB it was probably made for 10, or 12 varmint action, this is just my theory.


What the bedding block of the HS Precision is not made to fit this action!!!????

[jinx-)]

Maybe it is made for it but not all away, for some reason I have aluminum lines from pressure applied on the action on both sides of the action, it looks all the pressure is applied there and not equally distributed. This not hard fix, skin bedding will fix this issue.

Did more shooting today, from clean barrel I got 0.5 MOA that's 5 shots, but next 5 opens to 1.0 - 1.3". Tried it at 300 yards, this is not how target rifle shoots, I had 4 - 4.5" groups. Why this thing called Long Range Precision I have no clue. I can see why it wasn't sold as varmint, with 4 - 4.5" spread you can miss gophers easy and its to heavy for hunting...

[jinx-)]

Pictures as I promised.
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4863/p1050329nq.jpg

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/489/p1050330i.jpg

300 yard targets

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7976/p1050331f.jpg

should I send this one to Savage ;)

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/787/p1050336.jpg

[memilanuk]

Hmmm...

The HS stocks on these guns are, if my understanding is correct, left over from the former LRPV repeaters. AFAIK, the LRPV/FTR/F-Class/Benchrest/Palma *all* use Target Actions, just variations on the same theme.

The .260 Rem, in its commercial form, has a short throat for hunting bullets to be fired from a short action magazine (2.810" OAL). Savage actually has a pretty roomy magazine for its short actions, so they probably could have gone with a longer throat... but I'm guessing they simply ordered a SAAMI spec reamer from JGS and what you see is what you get. The throating is the primary difference between the .260 Remington, and its semi-wildcat predecessor, the 6.5-08 Win. which was throated out further to seat the long 140gn bullets past the neck-shoulder junction aka donut region.

FWIW, this is exactly why I chose a 6.5 Creedmoor instead of a .260 Rem - that and having had one those already (in the past).

I torqued the stock bolts to 36in-lbs, as that was the closest convenient setting on my Borka torque driver to the 35 I wanted.

Mine seems to shoot pretty well, even though the crown needs some work...

Factory 120 A-Max ammo @ 300yds
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a210/milanuk/gun_stuff/load_testing/2011-04-20_6-1.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a210/milanuk/gun_stuff/load_testing/2011-04-20_7-1.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a210/milanuk/gun_stuff/load_testing/2011-04-20_8-1.jpg

Handloaded duplicate of factory 140 A-Max load @ 300yds
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a210/milanuk/gun_stuff/load_testing/2011-05-01_1.jpg

[jinx-)]

I guess its just me, jinxed it again ;D I ordered bunch of Lapua 139 gr Scenars with max OAL allowance of my chamber it has to seat way pass datum line...

[rinodods]

Does the HS stock just have a vblock style bedding? I'm guessing it is a lot like the choate in that respect. If so you are going to see a couple of lines down the action where the tops of the v hit the action. They aren't made to completely cradle the action unless I'm really missing something.