Group Sizes (Pictures)

[DennisH87]

Well I'm going to a shoot hosted by a member here next weekend and wanted to test out JBM calculations drop chart for my rifle. Here's what I got. All groups were shot form a bench with sand bags but the 400 and 500 yard groups were from the roof of my truck while I was sitting in the bed on a chair lol. Not the most stable platform but I had to get some elevation to get above the corn stalks and small hill in the field. This is the first time I've shot on paper past 200 yards. I could have gotten better groups at 300 and 400 as I only shot one group and moved the target. The load is out of my .223 savage 12 with a 24" Addams and Bennet barrel 1:14. The action has been glass bedded and the barrel is free floated. The load was 25.6 gr. of Benchmark powder with a 40gr. V-Max on top seated to 2.222. The MV= 3654. Primers are CCI 400. The case was 5.56x45 NATO trimmed, flash hole deburred, and just used my ID neck reamer to take out the military crimp. The head stamp says "NPA 66". I think it's some jap case that was made in 1966. Never heard of them though.

100 Yard: The rifle was zero'd right on at 100 but it shot about 1/8 - 1/4 high after I dialed it up to 500 then back down. This group was shot to confirm zero again but was a little high. Not sure what happened here. Maybe my scope wasn't tracking right or I just fudged up when I reset the turret. Not a huge problem though.
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/100yards.jpg
200 Yard:
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/200yards.jpg
300 Yard:
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/300yards.jpg
400 Yard: This is still a fairly decent group but I kept adjusting the windage as the wind picked up. I should have just left it alone.
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/400yards.jpg
500 Yard:
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/500OK.jpg
Best 500 Yard Group:
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/500YardsBest.jpg

The JBM calculations were right on the money except at 500 yards. It may have been slightly over 500 because my range finder only goes to 440 so I had to guess about where 500 was.

[GaCop]

Not bad at all considering your shooting platform at the longer ranges. Nice tight group at 200 yards. The least bit of wind will raise cane with groups at the longer ranges as you found out.

[DennisH87]

Thank you. Yeah, I was going to adjust the windage at 500 but you see what happened at 400? I set it for a 4 mph wind and I was off by like 3 inches. So on 500 I only put 1 click on it (1/8" clicks) and I shoulda done 3 at least. I was so damn impressed when I saw the 500 yard group. The mirage was so bad I couldn't make out the center orange square so I just aimed for the center of the paper. For my first time past 300 I was satisfied with the results. Just glad it didn't take long to find a load that shot accurately. On my .22-250 I had to try several combination's of powder and bullets.

[GaCop]

What scope are you using? During the times mirage gets really bad, it's a good idea to drop back a bit on magnification making the target a little clearer. High magnification is good for reading the mirage to see which way and how much it slanting to estimate wind speed. Of course, wind flags are the best indicator.

[DennisH87]

it's a Nikon Buckmasters 6x18x40 without using the sunshade. It had 1/8th clicks and I can get 25-26 MOA out of it at 100 yard zero. It also has the BDC reticle. I just bought another Nikon Buckmasters 6x18 for my long range AR build. I love this scope for the money. They have them on sale for $300 on midway. I was using the 18 power but I may try dialing it down a couple to see if that helps.

[kslefty]

Very nice shooting in my opinion. You are going against conventional wisdom by using the 40gr bullets @ extended range. Most everyone uses the 69gr SMK and occasionally heavier bullets, I understand the 14 twist limits bullet weight a lot. Nice job no matter what bullets you were using.

[GaCop]

I've owned a Nikon Buckmaster like yours, had it on a 260 Rem a few years ago. I'm sold on the Vortex Viper now, 6.5X20X50PA. The clarity, contrast and brightness, along with their no BS warranty is great. I have it mounted on my latest build, a 6.5X47L. With a 140 grain A-Max seated .002" off the lands pushed by 38.8 grains of H4350, it printed a five shot group of .209" at 100 yards yesterday. Four 5 shot groups averaged in the .6's with low single digit SD and ES in the teens.

[DennisH87]

Thanks lefty. Well, the reason I load the 40 grainers is because one, where I live (northern Indiana) there are a lot of scattered houses around the country side. Still safe to shoot, but I don't want any ricochets and the 40gr pretty much explodes when it hits anything. They usually don't even exit ground hogs. And second like you stated the barrel I bought has a slow twist rate and it won't shoot anything higher than 52gr. SMK accurately. I won't consider loading them unless it'll hold under .5 MOA. The 55gr. V-max prints 1 MOA but that's not worth it to me. I was going to load up a bunch of the 52gr SMK for the shoot but I want to gain experience with the 40 V-max because that's what I'll be using to shoot ground hogs with. I've shot one ground hog at 600 yards using the 40 vmax with my .22-250 but I want to be able to do the same with the .223. The AR I'm building to shoot maybe to even 1000. It has a 1:8 twist 20" ss barrel and I'm going to duplicate the Marine Corps MK262 round. That is a 77 gr. SMK.

[DennisH87]

Nice GaCop. Sounds like a real shooter. How much does that vortex run? I couldn't pass that deal up on the Nikon Mil-dot. I love the one on my savage so I knew I'd like another. Plus with the 20 MOA Nikon M-223 base I'll really be able to reach out. The only thing I don't like on the 6x18 BDC is that the cross hair is rather thick. I shoot with both eyes open so that helps but at 500 yards it covered about 4-5 inches of the target right where I was aiming. The mil dot cross hair is much thinner. The cross hair on the BDC isn't bad for ground hogs though. The thickness kind of helps out with fast aiming shots because it's easier to pick up quickly.

[GaCop]

The prices vary but check out Optics Planet or Camera Land for the best prices. Vortex's web site shows a suggested retail of $460.

The AR is a nice platform for 1k shooting but, you'll have to single load the 77 gr because it's too long to work through the magazine. If seated deep enough to work through the mag it sticks way down into the case and you loose valuable powder space hence velocity. Check out Berger's 69 grain bullet, it may work well out to at least 800 yards. I shoot a 223 Ackley Improved out to 1k but I'm loading the Berger 80 grain VLD in a barrel throated for it. The AR is really hard on brass compared to a bolt action. My case life is far better in my bolt action than it is in my AR. I also hate loosing expensive Lapua brass after I've spent so much time prepping it.

[DennisH87]

Yeah I figured i'd have to load them one by one. I still want to try and load them to the mag length and see what kind of velocity I get out of my chrono. I'm going to try the 69gr but the ones made by sierra and Hornady. The barrel is an AR stoner HBAR with the Wydle chamber. I guess the barrel is made by ER Shaw. I don't know much about them but I guess I'll just have to see how it shoots since I've already ordered it. I couldn't afford putting a WOA barrel or some other high quality brand. They wanted way too much $$. I have .223 and 5.56 brass. I plan on using the 5.56 for the ar and the .223 for my bolt gun. I ran out of .223 brass so I had to load them for my bolt gun this time. The 5.56 NPA brass was already fired out of an AR because the rim was a little chewed up. I plan on getting some once fired GI brass or something else once this stuff gets chewed and used up. Already found one that had a cracked neck on it's first maybe second reload so I don't suppose it will last long.

[DennisH87]

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/FamilyPhoto2.jpg Here's a picture of the rifle along with my Rock Island Armory 1911.

[GaCop]

I've got the Wylde chamber in my 223 Remington bolt action with 1 in 8 twist. Nice thing about the Wylde chamber is it's not finicky about brass. My AR with a Stag Arms unchromed barrel has to have the military brass small base sized or I end up with reliability problems.

[helotaxi]

The ogive on the 77 SMK is actually very short specifically to be able to load to mag length. The 75gn A-Max has a longer ogive and won't fit in the mag. The 77gn SMK has a pretty low BC because of the short ogive. The single load bullets carry velocity and buck the wind better with the 80gn SMK and A-Max both being excellent extreme range bullets in the AR platform and compatible with a 1:8 twist barrel.

[DennisH87]

Here's a pic of my AR. Just got the barrel and other parts today.
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/ARbuild.jpg

What does a small base die do? And why does it solve reliability problems? Not new to reloading but have never loaded for an AR before.

The lower is stag with DPMS parts kit. Barrel is AR Stoner 1:8 Wydle. YHM upper besides the barrel. Waiting on YHM front sight/gas block and Nikon M223 scope mount along with other various parts.

[GaCop]

Here's a pic of my AR. Just got the barrel and other parts today.
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/ARbuild.jpg

What does a small base die do? And why does it solve reliability problems? Not new to reloading but have never loaded for an AR before.

The lower is stag with DPMS parts kit. Barrel is AR Stoner 1:8 Wydle. YHM upper besides the barrel. Waiting on YHM front sight/gas block and Nikon M223 scope mount along with other various parts.


Here's a pic of my AR. Just got the barrel and other parts today.
http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv171/DennisH87/ARbuild.jpg

What does a small base die do? And why does it solve reliability problems? Not new to reloading but have never loaded for an AR before.

The lower is stag with DPMS parts kit. Barrel is AR Stoner 1:8 Wydle. YHM upper besides the barrel. Waiting on YHM front sight/gas block and Nikon M223 scope mount along with other various parts.


Small base dies resize the case to factory dimensions to aid in reliable feeding in semi-auto rifles. I initially used a standard sizing die and had a few cases jam in the chamber. The SB die eliminated the problem and feeding is now 100%. Apparently, I have a chamber a little on the tight side.

[helotaxi]

SOME ARs want a small base sizer to feed reliably. This is usually with a tight chamber and brass originally fired in another rifle. Try it first with a regular size die. The SB die works the brass more and can shorten the brass life.

[jonbearman]

When ever you dial a scope,dial past a few clicks and then back to get the reluctor tube to settle down.All benchresters I know do that even with niteforce and leupold.

[GaCop]

When ever you dial a scope,dial past a few clicks and then back to get the reluctor tube to settle down.All benchresters I know do that even with niteforce and leupold.


Excellent point.

[DennisH87]

I may look into getting a small base sizer but I want to see how well the full length sizer does as you mentioned. I have all the parts ordered for my AR but the damn YHM gas block isn't going to be in till june 6th so I'll have to wait till then >:(. I also just picked up a M7 bayonet to round out the look of the evil rifle. What kind of groups do you guys typically get at 500 - 800 yards? The rifle is sub MOA or better and that holds true out to 500 as you see but I wonder if it'll do the same out to about 700 - 800. Feel free to post some of your group pictures too. I wouldn't mind seeing what you guys can do as well.