.308 reloading questions

[DanSavage]

I'm getting back into reloading again and have a few questions.

Setup:
Rifle-10 fp .308
Lee collet die
Winchester brass
Federal brass
168 gr. Combined Tech Nosler's
Varget
4064
CCI LR NO.200

1) Is this cci primer safe to use in place of a federal 210M?

2) Will this primer work well with Varget and 4064?

3) The load data on the Hodgdon site doesn't state a primer to use so will this primer work good with their data or should I be looking for a different primer?

4) When load data says Sierra 168 gr. bthp is it safe to assume the 168 gr. Nosler bt could be substituted?

5) Should I start right at the minimum load specified, or lower?

Thanks a lot guys!

[anomad]

My Speer reloading manual lists the regular CCI LR primer (naturally) with 4064.

I would feel safe substituting bullets.

Always start at the starting load if you change any variable. I don't see any reason to go below minimum with that recipe?

I see you listed two types of brass. You will need to sort those out and keep them separate for best results.

[DanSavage]

Thanks anomad, Yes I will keep the brass and powder separate.

[Slim Jim]

Try 42 grains to start of either or both powders and work from there. I believe you will find your load no more than 1 grain more than that. Often enough exactly 42 to 42.5 of those powders will give you some excellent accuracy in a 308. If not try RL-15 with the same loading info. One of those 3 powders should do very well for you. If not, you may wish to change bullets before trying other powders. Have not been able to develop an acceptable load with Varget that will stay with the other powders as of yet.Good luck.

Slim

[darkker]

Dan, here are some of my observations about reloading my FP.
#1 - Primers. Is it safe to use interchangably? Depends on your load. My FP is now a 1,000 yd 32# gun. I use Win 748 primarily, some 760; was formerly a Hodgden fan. I have never found a need to use magnum primers, if you have some and want to use them, fine. But don't get hung-up on the hype of "must use magnum primers for ball powders, it is horse... you understand. I can tell you that I have interchanged WLR, and CCI-BR primers with no issues in either pressures, or velocities. The BR-2's lower my SD on velocity about 5 fps.

#2 - Primers work with powder, really no need to look further into that one. The only concern is pressure with your paticular loads.
#3 - Again, personally I think you should just use regular LR primers. The hype about "magnum for ball" is marketing, plain and simple.
#4 - Bullet swapping. Personally I think if you want to get into reloading for you gun, ignore what the book says for COL. Get a inertial puller, hammer type, and find out what max for you gun is. Whenever I get a new bullet(weight, style, brand) I ALWAYS do this first. Then you know what max is, and what your guns's throat is like. All of my FP's (308, and 223's) have INCREDIBLY long throats. I can seat them WAY BEYOND book spec. If you want top accuracy, you need to know what the "jump" for your gun is, and be consistent.
That being said, IF you are safely down from max in your gun, then MAYBE. If you are going off of book numbers for COL, you SHOULD be safe in any case. The issue is "Sticky-ness" in my 1,000 yard load I found Hornady bullets to be substantially less "slick" than Sierra bullets. The load I have can swap bullets, but the pressure is noticeably higher with the Hornady; and the accuracy suffers with that same load.
#5 - Minimum is fine. The issue with going lower is detonation. Despite what rumors you may hear, more guns/folks get hurt from light loads and detonation, than from over loading. Usually from sloppy reloading, and the case didn't get properly/fully charged.

[DanSavage]

Thanks for the replies guys, I finally had some decent weather to test out my first loads and everything went very good. The first load was started at 42gr of 4064 and had decent group then 42.5 was a little worse then when I hit 43gr it shot a .2 inch group! Slim Jim was right on the money with that one, so I just loaded up some more for 5 shot groups at 42.9gr,43gr,43.1gr and we'll see how it does.

165gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
Federal Gold Medal Match case
CCI LR no. 200 primer
IMR 4064
.010 off the lands

The best I got with my second load was 1/2MOA that one was at 43.5 gr 4064. The only difference in the two loads was this one had a Winchester case and bullet was seated .015 off the lands.
My next experiment load will be a 168gr Combined Tech with Varget and CCI 200 in a Privi Partezan case loaded on the lands. I'll post some pictures for anyone who's interested.


http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af240/243Wilson/308sgroup001.jpg



http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af240/243Wilson/308sgroup002.jpg

[helotaxi]

I wouldn't base anything on a single 3 shot group. Before deciding that was the best load with that powder and bullet, I'd load 5-10 each at that weight and at +0.2gn and -0.2gn. A 3 shot group doesn't tell you anything and if it's really a good load, being +/- 0.2gn will not affect the group or the POI.

[btm_54]

I use Varget 44.5gr, CCI BR2 primers, Fed or Lapua cases, with a Hornady 168 gr Amax.
No signs of pressure and chronos at 2700 fps. The load is accurate and consistent.
You need to work up your load with caution.

[jonbearman]

You ought to give blc-2 a try as it is used as an accuracy load in one of the manuals.I have used blc-2 and h335 for years and get phenominal accuracy with my 168 grain hornady bthp match bullets and the load is 42.0 grains but you should work up slow,drop by 10% to start.

[DanSavage]

I am a little discouraged now because I could not even shoot one group under 1 '' yesterday :'(. I'm thinking it was probably the wind since there was a big storm brewing. It also could have been barrel heat since I shot 5-5shot groups in half an hour I don't know. Also I was looking at my target on the ON TARGET program and discovered that I didn't measure my smallest group correctly and it is closer to .3 if not over. Note the point of aim circles are a little bigger than 1 inch. Well, I'm going to try again on Saturday and see if things will go sub moa again. I'll post some pics if anything good. I just found a store in Westfield Pennsylvania. that has a large powder and primer selection and I'll have to try the blc-2 I have noticed the IMR 4064 filing up the case a little too much and feel a little crunch when seating the bullet.

[jonbearman]

You will end up some where around 41 to 42 grains but load 3 and start about midway around 38 grains and look for the most promising load and start looking at seating depths to bring in the promising group as most savages like a solid jump to the rifling,sometimes you will be jumping .050 or more to get it to shoot tight groups.One other thing,the savages like a heavier match bullet such as the excellent sierra 175 matchking.Dont ask me why but after reading many posts about your exact gun ,I have learned they like heavy bullets.I hope this helps.Let us know how it turns out.Joion so we can pm you,it is 12.00 a tear and it is worth hands down.Dont shoot in crummy consitions as this will definitely push the bullet around and frustrate you more.Even a 10mph wind can cause bad groups.

[DanSavage]

Thanks for the great encouragement jonbearman. I guess I kind of forced it yesterday trying to load develop in poor weather conditions. I find it very hard to hold off on testing new loads, but it will be a must from now on. I got out today and the conditions were less windy with occasional gentle breezes and I shot only when it seemed on the calm side. The results were much better, I tried a new load with 168gr Combined Tech, Varget, Fed case, and Fed 210m primer. The best I got with that was about .4" with 42.6 grains with bullet .010 off the lands. I will now make a few batches of that round at different seating depths and see if it will tighten up some. I noticed that this year I can see the crosshairs bob a little when my heart beats so it is a fine line being able to shoot under 1 moa. Overall I am thankful to God for having the skill and rifle to shoot under MOA. I am only a hunter but I shoot paper because I crave accuracy and don't think I'll be completely satisfied until I have those one hole groups like OneShot.