brass is growing?

[keeki]

I reloaded some 22-250 the other night and went to load one in the gun and it wouldnt fit. I FL sized this brass because I t was some once fired brass that I had bought so I figured it must be something wrong with the brass. so I go and find some brass that was fired from this gun and after I FL sized it, it wouldnt fit either. Is it possible that the shoulder in the die is just too deep and when I run it through the die its pushing the shoulder forward? Gonna take the toolholder to work this morning and shave a few thou from it, am I in the right ballpark here?

[GaCop]

It could very well be the size die isn't setting the shoulder back. A check with a Forster case gauge would confirm that easily and show if the case neck needed trimming too. Measure a number of your shell holder to see if any are thinner than what your using, that would eliminate having to alter one. Different brands have markedly different thickness from base to top.

[pphreed]

check the shoulder for a slight bulge I have had that happen in the past Fred

[82boy]

Yes 22/250 is a brass that will grow bigger, but all that is needed is to trim back the necks ever once and a while. I am going to take a guess and say you are using Redding dies. I found that I have never found a redding die that was to the right speck, and they are usually too long and will not properly push the shoulder back to where it needs to be. Yes, grinding the shell holder is one way to fix the problem, but it also has a down side, that shell holder is mated to that die, and any other die you set up with it. I would recamend coloring both the dies, and the shell holder to ensure that they match. I would prefer to cut the die down into speck. It don't take much, just a sheet of 400 grit sand paper, and a flat surface. I lay the sandpaper on the flat surface, and then holding the die strait on the sandpaper, work in figure 8 motions. I usually work down to 1000 grit. Only a couple of thousands has to come off to get the die to work.

I would highly suggest you get a shoulder gauge, so that you can measure shoulder bump back, before preforming any modification to the die, or the shell holder. This way you can measure the amount of bump, and make sure you are not at a point where you are over bumping the shoulder, and not fully sizing the brass.

Something else to consider is if you are using a expander ball on your die, make sure that that ball is polished. I usually work them down to 2000 grit sand paper. Don't need much, I usually chuck the stem in a drill, and as it is spinning I touch the ball with various sand papers, starting with 400, and working down. Just a quick touch is all that is needed, you don't want to remove a bunch of material. The expander ball can cause the brass to be pulled out of shape, if it is rough, as it is pulled through the neck. Some people remove them all together, (With use of neck sizing bushings, if you remove it on a standard die, the brass will be over sized, and it will be hard to seat a bullet.) I found that if they are properly polished they cause no problems.

After I sand I always finish out with a polishing compound, a good cleaning and some lube. I also take a nylon bore brush (The only thing I have found them good for.) and run them through the necks of the brass before I load, to knock out the left over junk. Some people take a q-tip with oil, or wax, and lube the inside of there cases. I use wax on my fingers, and after I rub the case I take and run my finger over the lip of the neck, so that a small amount of wax is at the top, and is picked up by the expander ball.

If the case has a slight bulge as mentioned above, then you are pushing the should back too far, and what happens is the unsupported section bulges out. I hope this helps out.

[358Hammer]

1. Measure the thickness of the neck on the brass. The necks on all of my chambers are tight/no turn. I just had this problem and the neck thickness on the brass was 20 thou instead of the typical .08-.10
2. Take all measurements on the case and compare to a drawing of that cartridge before you cut or buff anything seems like a first thing to do. The only die body I ever took a few thou off the bottom was one I was using to make a wildcat. Take and cast the chamber and all your answers should be readily aparent.
3.I have had this problem you indicate several times over the years.
a. Bad brass lot- tossed the brass.
b. Very bad finish in the chamber that required buffing out
c. The die had a short chamber and when I set the die to kiss the shellholder as typical. It swelled the body shoulder junction to oversize and would not Chamber when I sized the case.
D. Chamber in barrel was .10 short requiring I go back in and cut the chamber a tad deeper.
E Expander button is too large and when one primes and pulls that oversized button back through the neck it actually pulls the neck/shoulder junction forward enough to hinder closure of the bolt.

I always set cases in barrels that are off of guns at first, as it is much easier to spot the area the problem is in.
My chambers are always cut the same way and many times I get very little brass bounce from firing. Which interprets to," I do not ever" push shoulders back after the first time the brass is formed to the chamber. I actually only neck size after the brass has been formed to the chamber and never touch or move a shoulder again. If I am using a FL size die I reset the die away from the shoulder so I do not move that shoulder. In this way by NOT moving the should I am not working brass the does not need working.

Everyone has their own way of doing things. I am lazy and tend to simplify things. I have been down the benchrest anal everything for competition to find out if anything was more consistant or accurate doing what the benchrest crowd does. I went back to my own way and those that taught me when I was a young man.

Neal

[keeki]

thanks for all the info, my brains kinda tingling right now. I had an extra shell holder that i trimmed .002 off of it so I'll just toss it if it dont seem to help. Also got some once fire brass from this particular gun today and will do some measuring when i get home from work before I run it through the sizer. these are Lee RGB dies which i just got through loading for a 22-250 ruger77 and they loaded and shot fine. At the end of the stroke it does feel kinda spongey and takes a considerable amount of force to get the shell holder and die to kiss, but if i back the die off a touch it wont load in the gun. If i make the two kiss it does size the brass to a point that i can close the bolt but it is too tight. Dont own a case gauge, never had a need for one til now but gonna get one.

[keeki]

finally came to the conclusion this is a bad die. wound up taking .003 off the shell holder and finally pushed the shoulder back enough to load the shell but when i did it left dents and scratches in the brass. so I brought my bore scope home from work and this has got to be the worst cut tool ive ever bought. theres a couple of burrs in there and you can actually see the cut marks from where the reamer was. has anybody ever had this problem?

[Slowpoke Slim]

Wow, who would've guessed, a bad die from Lee?!

Say it isn't so?!

::)

I would toss that pos in the trash and get some decent dies... RCBS or Redding come to mind.

I have the RCBS FL and neck dies for my 22-250. No problems at all. I FL size new brass, then neck size only from then on, until the bolt no longer closes, then bump again with the FL and start over again. By the time the bolt doesn't close a second time, it's time for new brass anyway.

[keeki]

no more FL Lee dies for me either but I like their collet dies. Anyone got a good set of FL 22-250 dies they want to get rid of?