Stainless vs. Blued

[kdvarmint]

What are the advantages of a stainless barrel over blued? Thinking more about the bore than the exterior.

[rsbhunter]

I asked that same question to the people at Krieger, and Pac-Nor.....not a whole lot according to them...other than rust RESISTANCE, some believe that stainless is easier to machine than chromemoly (i think it's that way, might be reversed) and iv'e read that it's not great to use a SS barrel in sub zero temps..????? but Sinman and Jim from northland, and Fred from SSS can probably say if i have my facts wrong....I hunted elk this past January with a SS 300 RUM at -8 degrees and had no problem.....can't blame the miss on it.....rsbhunter

[Cycler]

..... iv'e read that it's not great to use a SS barrel in sub zero temps..?????.....
I'd love to know where this myth got started. There should be absolutely no metalurgical reason for it.

[sha-ul]

I asked on another forum about nitride treating barrels& was told by Rsilvers of AAC that chome-moly barrels respond better to the process

[showgun]

I believe that stainless barrels clean up faster. Thats about the only difference Ive found.

[pdog06]

I believe that stainless barrels clean up faster. Thats about the only difference Ive found.


me too.

[philkryder]

..... iv'e read that it's not great to use a SS barrel in sub zero temps..?????.....
I'd love to know where this myth got started. There should be absolutely no metalurgical reason for it.


perhaps places like this:
http://www.bssa.org.uk/faq.php?id=26

....
Steels with ferritic or martensitic structures show a sudden change from ductile (safe) to brittle (unsafe) fracture over a small temperature difference. Even the best of these steels show this behaviour at temperatures higher than -100 deg C and in many cases only just below zero....<--

coupled with there being so many types of stainless - which many folk just call "stainless"...

are the stainless actions and barrels 316 austenitic?

[Cycler]

..... iv&#39;e read that it&#39;s not great to use a SS barrel in sub zero temps..?????.....
I&#39;d love to know where this myth got started. There should be absolutely no metalurgical reason for it.

perhaps places like this:
http://www.bssa.org.uk/faq.php?id=26
....
Steels with ferritic or martensitic structures show a sudden change from ductile (safe) to brittle (unsafe) fracture over a small temperature difference. Even the best of these steels show this behaviour at temperatures higher than -100 deg C and in many cases only just below zero....<--

coupled with there being so many types of stainless - which many folk just call "stainless"...

are the stainless actions and barrels 316 austenitic?
No, barrels and actions are never 300-series stainless steel, they are 400-series, usually 416 or similar and have you EVER heard of a rifle fracturing at any temperature any hunter has encountered?

There are dozens or even hundreds of "stainless steel" variations and the people who design firearms, knives and tools know which to use. As I said, the low temperature sensitivity of stainless steel used in firearms is a myth.

[philkryder]

..... iv&#39;e read that it&#39;s not great to use a SS barrel in sub zero temps..?????.....
I&#39;d love to know where this myth got started. There should be absolutely no metalurgical reason for it.

perhaps places like this:
http://www.bssa.org.uk/faq.php?id=26
....
Steels with ferritic or martensitic structures show a sudden change from ductile (safe) to brittle (unsafe) fracture over a small temperature difference. Even the best of these steels show this behaviour at temperatures higher than -100 deg C and in many cases only just below zero....<--

coupled with there being so many types of stainless - which many folk just call "stainless"...

are the stainless actions and barrels 316 austenitic?
No, barrels and actions are never 300-series stainless steel, they are 400-series, usually 416 or similar and have you EVER heard of a rifle fracturing at any temperature any hunter has encountered?

There are dozens or even hundreds of "stainless steel" variations and the people who design firearms, knives and tools know which to use. As I said, the low temperature sensitivity of stainless steel used in firearms is a myth.


Well, I think that explains the origin of the "myth" since 416 is Martensitic.
Which I believe was your question which I was attempting to answer.


Your generalization that
"...the people who design firearms,... know which to use...." is very broad.

You note that:
"....There are dozens or even hundreds of "stainless steel" variations...."
Many of them superficially the same.
Would you accept that a supplier or jobber or end user might mistake one variation for another?

As to your question regarding anecdotal personal knowledge, of cold induced failure, I have none.

I submit that anecdotal evidence of that form is by its nature suspect in argument.
I can imagine that if such a failure occurred, it would be attributed to "overload" or "excess head-space" or some such more pedestrian failure modality.

I hope you can see how this "myth" might have started.

[tammons]

Rust.

If you come out of a heavy downpour with a blued rifle, you have some work to do.
Or if you are in AK on a 2 week hunt, stainless is a good thing.

That said if you take care of a blued rifle, it should last just as long.

[range rat]

416 stainless steel has enough Iron in it to be magnetic and will rust "fast" if conditions allow. Chrome Molly barrels are usually a little harder and more wear resistant making them last a little longer if not abused.

[k80skeet]

The difference is first stainless Steel is more expensive than (blued) chrome molly. Most of the top barrel makers use stainless steel for most of their top end barrels because they are a little softer and a lot easier to hand lap to get a super smooth finish on the inside of the barrels they will also tell you they either can&#39;t or won&#39;t spend the time and effort to get their chrome molly barrels as smooth. Either way the barrels come smoother in stainless steel. Most shooter go for the stainless steel. They break-in a little faster and for that reason they clean easier quicker. Stainless steel barrels don&#39;t last any longer. There are people that think the stainless steel barrels are more accurate that is not true a good chrome Molly barrel will shoot every bit as good as a good stainless steel barrel. More of the top class shooters use stainless steel barrels than chrome molly barrels therefore everybody think they are better. The reason for this is most top barrel makers make a lot more stainless steel barrels than they do chrome molly so there are a lot more available. Both are good the choice is up to you.

[Cycler]

[Well, I think that explains the origin of the "myth" since 416 is Martensitic.
Which I believe was your question which I was attempting to answer.
Yes, which is why its suitable for firearm use.



Your generalization that"...the people who design firearms,... know which to use...." is very broad.
It&#39;s not that broad. Firearms designers better know what materials are suitable or better consult who does. The consequences of building a defective firearm are pretty severe.


You note that:
"....There are dozens or even hundreds of "stainless steel" variations...." Many of them superficially the same. Would you accept that a supplier or jobber or end user might mistake one variation for another?
They better not.



As to your question regarding anecdotal personal knowledge, of cold induced failure, I have none.

I submit that anecdotal evidence of that form is by its nature suspect in argument.
I can imagine that if such a failure occurred, it would be attributed to "overload" or "excess head-space" or some such more pedestrian failure modality.

I hope you can see how this "myth" might have started.
Anecdotal evidence isn&#39;t germain here. If there were any significant cold-induced failures the evidence would be clear and the lawyers would be all over it. You can be certain the major manufacturers have tested their alloys for temperature suitability. They can&#39;t afford not to.

[kdvarmint]

Seems to me my stainless is easier to clean, but I&#39;ve kept after it much better than my blued barrels since it was new. Also I noticed most bench rest shooters have stainless barrels. That&#39;s why I posted the question. Thanks for the responses. Kevin.

[Quickshot]

If you bring a stainless barrel in out the rain you better wipe it down good. I left a stainless shotgun in a case and found it not rusted but pitted where a small drop of water had been. I was told that it is way too costly and difficult to machine really "stainless" steel. That being said I still prefer stainless barrels. Quick

[philkryder]

[Well, I think that explains the origin of the "myth" since 416 is Martensitic.
Which I believe was your question which I was attempting to answer.
Yes, which is why its suitable for firearm use.



Your generalization that"...the people who design firearms,... know which to use...." is very broad.
It&#39;s not that broad. Firearms designers better know what materials are suitable or better consult who does. The consequences of building a defective firearm are pretty severe.


You note that:
"....There are dozens or even hundreds of "stainless steel" variations...." Many of them superficially the same. Would you accept that a supplier or jobber or end user might mistake one variation for another?
They better not.



As to your question regarding anecdotal personal knowledge, of cold induced failure, I have none.

I submit that anecdotal evidence of that form is by its nature suspect in argument.
I can imagine that if such a failure occurred, it would be attributed to "overload" or "excess head-space" or some such more pedestrian failure modality.

I hope you can see how this "myth" might have started.
Anecdotal evidence isn&#39;t germain here. If there were any significant cold-induced failures the evidence would be clear and the lawyers would be all over it. You can be certain the major manufacturers have tested their alloys for temperature suitability. They can&#39;t afford not to.






Perhaps sometimes some things slip thru the testing.
consider this from Findland link:
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/1101978285825

or perhaps consider this link to one of the major producers of 416R for barrels:
http://www.crucibleservice.com/PDFs/%5CDataSheets2010%5Cds416Rv12010.pdf
they note that THEY take extreme care in producing THEIR product.
Even so, they have a limit of -40.


Or consider the bottom line on this link from a leading barrel manufacturer:
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/RapidCat/catalog/pagetemplate.cfm?template=/RapidCat/common/viewPage.cfm&PageId=3390&CompanyId=1246

perhaps some of these links lead to folks giving credence to the "myth."

[3DHUSKER]

Chicken little comes to mind here. :)

[Iain]

I&#39;ve owned many rifles stainless and blued, just bought my 4th Savage. 111 FNCS .338 Winmag. The only difference I&#39;ve noticed between CM and SS is the SS is shinier. All of the ugly Savages I&#39;ve owned or have shot are friggin&#39; accurate, and there is no such thing as a maintenance-free gun. Besides, why would you want it? BTW, Howdy!