Criterion barrels for Savage bolt guns

[DougMH]

I recently purchased the following from Jim Briggs at Northland

Mfgr: Criterion
Length: 28"
Twist: 1:10
Material: SS
Contour: Bull

Installed it myself, it was easy. Here's a video link to YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlFtskCwng

Here are some images of the results. My stock Savage barrel was also pretty accurate. Easily sub-MOA, but I also used a new super secret step in my hand loading process that produced SDs of under 5 for the first test of this barrel.

http://www.gohurst.net/images/North1.JPG

The finished product

http://www.gohurst.net/images/North2.JPG

First ladder test after religiously following the Lilja/Criterion break-in procedure.

http://www.gohurst.net/images/North3.JPG

On the bench at MCB Quantico, VA, Range 1

[drybean]

i give up whats the secret

[DougMH]

i give up whats the secret


Sorry, you may come to The Remembering the Brave match at MCB Quantico, VA on May 27-29, 2011 and shoot against me (That's a thinly veiled plug for the match sponsor, The Quantico Shooting Club). I'll tell you this much, it has to with consistent bullet seating force, and it's not the K & M arbor press with force measurement. Very easy to obtain materials with a total cost of about $70.

[Cover Dog]

i give up whats the secret


I think it's like "double secret" probation.

[snipecatcher]

The secret is 3 shot groups. Make them 5 shots and let's see what that target looks like! ;D

[DougMH]

Oh! Here's another hint. None of the parts can be found at Midway USA, Sinclair Intl or any other reloading operation that I know of. But when I perfect it, I will be selling it as a kit for about $150 or so. The shooting world will beat a path to my door.

Seriously, if everything else about your hand loading technique is perfect, and you overlook or don't consider bullet seating force important, you'll NEVER shoot a sub 5 SD... I can almost guarantee it. I believe it to be the most overlooked and/or neglected aspect of hand loading.

[MDM]

The secret is 3 shot groups. Make them 5 shots and let's see what that target looks like! ;D

Right.. Let's see a 10 shot string. I've shot several 0 SD 3 shot groups. It's pretty bold to say you've developed something new in a reloading process that will have shooters beating a path to your door. It's hard to take this seriously when you post 3 shot strings. I'm just saying. Not trying to be an a-hole, just a bit skeptical. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/gcidso123/funny%20pic/emocons/thpopcorn-chair.gifI've got some popcorn ready and waiting for this new, uber consistant neck tension method.

[DougMH]

The reason I'm confident is because of the "other" 3 shot groups, albeit all with different loads. From 42.5 to 43.1 represents 12 shots, all of which were 6 or less and 3 of which were 5 or less. We'll see. I welcome your skepticism. I agree the proof is in the pudding and I'll be testing a new scope and distances out to 300 yds this weekend. I will post the results good or bad.

[canman]

The secret is 3 shot groups. Make them 5 shots and let's see what that target looks like! ;D

Right.. Let's see a 10 shot string. I've shot several 0 SD 3 shot groups. It's pretty bold to say you've developed something new in a reloading process that will have shooters beating a path to your door. It's hard to take this seriously when you post 3 shot strings. I'm just saying. Not trying to be an a-hole, just a bit skeptical. I've got some popcorn ready and waiting for this new, uber consistant neck tension method.


Torque wrench on the press arm?

[DougMH]

The secret is 3 shot groups. Make them 5 shots and let's see what that target looks like! ;D

Right.. Let's see a 10 shot string. I've shot several 0 SD 3 shot groups. It's pretty bold to say you've developed something new in a reloading process that will have shooters beating a path to your door. It's hard to take this seriously when you post 3 shot strings. I'm just saying. Not trying to be an a-hole, just a bit skeptical. I've got some popcorn ready and waiting for this new, uber consistant neck tension method.


Torque wrench on the press arm?





No, but I've seen that one somewhere on the net. It's a test that could be made using that method. He doesn't and I think my way is better anyway. We'll see as things progress.

[teele1]

Great video Doug and I'm interested in your procedure.

[MDM]

I have always like the tan web color stock. What kind of scope is that on your rig Doug?

[DougMH]

I have always like the tan web color stock. What kind of scope is that on your rig Doug?


Actually... it's the old one. I removed it last night and replaced it with a new Sightron SIII 10-50X 60mm Fine Crosshair last night.

It was a Konus 8.5-32X 52mm (MIL-DOT). It was a very nice scope. It had the added benefit of a cant level bubble built in. It appeared at the bottom of scope as you looked through it. For the Sightron, I added Vortex external bubble. I'll have to set it up with my left eye prior to target acquisition.

I'm shipping the Konus to my brother for some testing on one of his rifles. When I get it back it will be available if you're interested. The price will be right at $250.

[memilanuk]

No, but I've seen that one somewhere on the net. It's a test that could be made using that method. He doesn't and I think my way is better anyway. We'll see as things progress.


At some point are you going to share any details, or just keep playing secret squirrel with us?

I'm all for lower ES/SD, but three shot strings are statistically meaningless, like it or not.

If you got something, put it out there.

[DougMH]

No, but I've seen that one somewhere on the net. It's a test that could be made using that method. He doesn't and I think my way is better anyway. We'll see as things progress.


At some point are you going to share any details, or just keep playing secret squirrel with us?

I'm all for lower ES/SD, but three shot strings are statistically meaningless, like it or not.

If you got something, put it out there.


I promise I will, I just need to do some more verification. I don't want anyone to go out and spend even a single $ on something that I can't say for sure works 100% of the time. I guess I should have just kept my mouth shut.

I do authorize you to get a Criterion barrel. I think that part is fine.

[DougMH]

No, but I've seen that one somewhere on the net. It's a test that could be made using that method. He doesn't and I think my way is better anyway. We'll see as things progress.


At some point are you going to share any details, or just keep playing secret squirrel with us?

I'm all for lower ES/SD, but three shot strings are statistically meaningless, like it or not.

If you got something, put it out there.


I will say I think you're missing a point about the "three shot strings". I only put the numbers up for the sub-4 strings 43.1 and 42.2. 42.5 and 42.8 were both sub 6. That's 12 shots in rotation fired one after another. The sweet load appears to be 43.1. Further testing is necessary. I hope to have chrony and target results from 300yds this Saturday.

[pdog06]

I guess I should have just kept my mouth shut.



LOL....probably

but I think all of us have been guilty of that at one point...Some more than others. :D ::)

Nice lookin rig, and nice shootin. You're gonna love that new SIII 10-50x60.. Its quite a large scope, isnt it :o

[DougMH]

I guess I should have just kept my mouth shut.



LOL....probably

but I think all of us have been guilty of that at one point...Some more than others. :D ::)

Nice lookin rig, and nice shootin. You're gonna love that new SIII 10-50x60.. Its quite a large scope, isnt it :o


In fact I'm a bit worried about the sun shade on it... way to heavy... a lot heaver that it needed to be. I worried about its inertia on recoil.

[pdog06]

sit that scope beside a 8-32x56 SIII and you can see just how much larger it really is.

Know what you mean about the sunshade, but they had to make it heavy. If you were shooting in a dead headwind, the amount of air the sunshade collects could lift the nose of the gun up off the rest, so they made it heavy to eliminate that issue... :D ::)

Let us know how well you like your Criterion barrel after you've shot it for a while. There hasnt been much feedback on them as of yet. So far it looks pretty good.

[suberjc]

Oh! Here's another hint. None of the parts can be found at Midway USA, Sinclair Intl or any other reloading operation that I know of. But when I perfect it, I will be selling it as a kit for about $150 or so. The shooting world will beat a path to my door.

Seriously, if everything else about your hand loading technique is perfect, and you overlook or don't consider bullet seating force important, you'll NEVER shoot a sub 5 SD... I can almost guarantee it. I believe it to be the most overlooked and/or neglected aspect of hand loading.




Ah Doug, I don't think it's overlooked among competitors. It's just sort of not er uh
talked about :-) Most all the guys I shoot with have some magic method of insuring consistant neck tension/seating force. Of course the real issue is getting the inside of the case neck smooth so that our various measurement diddies are measuring neck tension instead of surface friction.
See now there I go running mu mouth. None of you guys compete in LA or MS do you? :-)