Need help on dbm stuff.

[ajlandis]

I'll admit I haven't paid much attention to what all savage has been doing the last couple years with actions. I have all the staggerfeed actions I need (for now), so I ignored all the new info. But my dad wants to buy a new savage, and I'm not sure what the new line-up consists of. Did savage completely do away with the 4.25" short action on all, even the stevens? What about the fcxp3 combo guns that had the original crappy clip? 4.4" is the new short length and they are all centerfeeds now, right? How about the mags? Am I understanding right that the centerfeeds come either as a blind mag, hinged floorplate, or a detachable box? And I see that Fred has a universal mag conversion. Is it different from the savage dbm? What would be the advantage of replacing an original dbm with the sss version? Are the savage mags and the sss mags interchangable? I like the idea of a 10 round mag, but I'd also like to be able to use the factory flush-fit mag for woods hunting. If I wanted to use a stagger-feed short action for a build, I would need to have a stock made for a 4.4" centerfeed action, inletted for the dbm, then oblong the front hole a bit and that would allow use of the sss mag frame and magazines? Or buying a current manufacture dbm model would allow a straight swap, right? I'm confused as to why someone would swap over to a different frame if the gun already has a detachable mag, especially since sss sells high cap mags for the dbm. What have I missed?

[hailstone]

Difficult following your train of thought. All new Savage and Stevens SA are center feed unless its new old stock. High number G prefix serial number and H prefix serial number are center feed. Savage engineers did a excellant job of reducing parts count when they came up with the new DBM, hinged floor plate and blind magazine.. The blind magazine and follower are used in all three types of setups. Seperate they make up the blind magazine assembly. Add the hinged floor plate for that setup. Get the bottom stock metal, magazine bottom cap and blind magazine assembly put together becomes DBM setup. If your dad wants a DBM I would suggest buying a rifle with the bottom metal/DBM. Seperate it will run around $80 from SSS plus stock costs.

Stocks are another problem for both the new CF actions and DBM. Boyds doesn't make any 4.4" spacing stocks. Stockys does but always seem to be out of stock every time I access there site. I occassionaly find one up for sale on this site. Lately I've just been buying a Savage rifle in whatever action length needed with the DBM setup. That way I get the stock, DBM parts and action for least cost. Then I change out the barrel for whatever I want. I personally don't like the new center feed setup. Not hard loading WSM cartridges or for that matter any of the .473 case head size cases. But the small 223 Remington case size is the real pits loading.

[82boy]

Did savage completely do away with the 4.25" short action on all, even the stevens?

Yes.



Am I understanding right that the centerfeeds come either as a blind mag, hinged floorplate, or a detachable box?

Yes, but they all use the same magazine box, they just change out bottom plates and bottom metal to suite the need.



And I see that Fred has a universal mag conversion. Is it different from the savage dbm? What would be the advantage of replacing an original dbm with the SSS version? Are the savage mags and the SSS mags interchangable?

What SSS set up are you talking about? SSS has two different set ups. The SSS "HIGH CAPACITY DBM MAGAZINE" set up is a nine round set up that uses a Factory Savage center feed magazine box, and will fit into a factory Savage center feed DBM set up, all you have to do it stick it in no modifications needed, cost is $80 bucks. The other set up is called the "ACME UNIVERSAL MAGAZINE CONVERSION." The Acme will work on either staggered feed (4.275) and centerfeed (4.4) actions. It uses a single stacked 10 or 5 round (Your choice) aftermarket magazine.




If I wanted to use a stagger-feed short action for a build, I would need to have a stock made for a 4.4" centerfeed action, inletted for the dbm, then oblong the front hole a bit and that would allow use of the SSS mag frame and magazines?

Yes this would work, Fred designed the Acme set up to use Savage factory DBM inletting. By doing what you have stated will work out fine, or you can have an older staggered feed stock inletted for the newer style DBM if that is what you would want.



buying a current manufacture dbm model would allow a straight swap, right?

Yes.



I'm confused as to why someone would swap over to a different frame if the gun already has a detachable mag, especially since sss sells high cap mags for the dbm. What have I missed?


If you have a Factory DBM and 1 round make a difference to you, then this system is what you want. Suprising when SSS came out with the 9 round conversion, there was a field of complaints that it would only hold 9 rounds, and people just had to have a 10 round magazine. Then other company's came out with custom bottom metal that used AI magazines. These aftermarket company's offered a product that needed special inletting, used expensive magazines, and to tell the truth they just did not fit right. So Fred came up with the Acme design to compete with them. It uses a factory Savage inletting, has a high quality aftermarket magazine that could be sold at half the cost of the AI mags, and do to them being made in the USA, they would be available if there was a change in the importation laws. Fred also designed the ACME system to work with either staggered feed or center feed actions. Before if you wanted a DBM you either had to sell or trade your staggered feed and get a centerfeed action, or go with the expensive aftermarket set ups. What it equates in the big picture is more options for the Savage enthusiast.

[ajlandis]

Difficult following your train of thought.
You don't know the half of it. ;)
But, I believe you guys got what I was shooting for. Thanks for the help. It all makes sense now. I'll have to pay more attention to changes from now on. Thanks again!

[ajlandis]

Now I'm confused again. Twice this week I've seen a detachable mag (new style) on a rifle without an accutrigger. The first was used, didn't have a scope, but did have rings and bases like the ones that come on package guns. The second was new, and had the savage scope package. Is savage building these models with the dm and the scope package without the accutrigger, just like the old 110fcxp3's? I guess I'd assumed that all the new savages were going to have the accutrigger, and the stevens would not. And how do you tell if the stock is an accustock? I like the new recoil pads I'm seeing. Much improved.

[hailstone]

I've also noticed the differences so my thoughts are these rifles are special builds for the bigger distributors. They specify what too build into the rifles and Savage accommodiates. Seen Savage rifles without the Accua-triggers nor being a package outfit but with DBM's. Even seen DBM rifles cheaper than blind magazine equipped rifles although these are drying up.

[ajlandis]

Seen Savage rifles without the Accua-triggers nor being a package outfit but with DBM's. Even seen DBM rifles cheaper than blind magazine equipped rifles
Sounds like a rifle that I'm trying to resist buying right now. Dbm, stainless in .243. Typical package scope and mounts and no accutrigger, but it was $35 cheaper than the best price I could get a blued model with hinged floorplate with accutrigger for. And I believe they'll come down another 50 bucks or so. Just bothers me that it doesn't seem to be a configuration that makes sense.