Brand New Gun- Any Procedures For "Break In" or Just Fire It?

[Chevy327]

Bought first brand new gun for my sons for Christmas, Model 11 308. Installing Nikon ProStaff 4x12x40 tomorrow with dednutz mount. Hope all goes well there. Anyway are there any special procedures or oiling that I need to do the the gun before actually firing it? I'm a mechanic by trade and you know how we feel about break ins! Also brand new to forum and I appreciate the help!!

[~Ace~]

Copper Plasma follows the bullet and deposits on any rough spots in the bore. Copper is attracted to copper so the next shot deposits even more.

Using a Good Copper remover (Like Sweets 762) Clean the bore after every shot for the first 10 - 15, you should see a decrease in "Blue" on the patches with each shot, till there is almost none. Follow that with a cleaning every 5 rounds for the next 25 - 50, or until your seeing little signs of copper.... the rough spots will smooth out as the bore "Breaks In"

Some require a Bunch to get the fouling slowed to a Min, some not so much. Leaving the copper in there and depositing more layers on it will make getting it out in the future Much harder, and can / will create "tight" spots in the bore..

Don't clean it any more then you Have to, but clean it Enough so you get the full potential.

[Eric in NC]

Clean it well and remove all oil in the bore and chamber BEFORE firing it. Just about everyone will agree on that one.

The rest is open to debate.

I am in the "just shoot it" category. Yes it will get more or less copper in the bore (factory Savages usually copper up a lot) but if it doesn't affect the accuracy you are seeing - who cares. Don't see how cleaning after every shot vs. cleaning after a day at the range will affect barrel life/performance etc. at all.

Of course you need to make sure you have proper cleaning tools and technique or "cleaning" will cause much more harm than not cleaning at all!

[~Ace~]

I used to be in your camp, Eric, till I got serious about Accuracy. I learned that proper Copper removal in the first 50 rounds Often makes a big impact on the final results.

http://cdn.snipershide.com/snipershide.com/forum/gallery/27/full/6964.jpg

[Uncle Jack]

I also have been of the obsessive compulsive school of "Break In" for many years. I do however notice more and more custom barrel makers and gunsmiths who say "BS, just go shoot it".

Golly, what's a guy to do?

uj

[Ray Gunter]

... more and more custom barrel makers and gunsmiths who say "BS, just go shoot it".


If I built custom rifles or made barrels, I would say "go shoot it"
Sell'n more is how they make $$

[82boy]

Well I can say this, I have had dozens of new barrels, (Both factory and aftermarket) and have tried both ways, and can honestly say there is no difference. I stop doing the break in myth a long time ago. All I can say is I must be doing something right, I am winning match's.

[bluealtered]

Welcome aboard chevy327, (great engine). You will find a million or more thoughts on breaking in. I have found over 40yrs of shooting to just do what the manufator says to do. Some say do a long break in some say just shoot it. The two things i have found with savages are that looking down the bore will scare the h*ll out of you because of the reamer marks, however they still shoot circles around any other brand for the price, so don't worry about it.

The other is that most of my savages like between a 100 or200rds to really smooth out, after that i simply clean when the groups start to drop off. Another thing about running 1-200rds though it is that by then you and the rifle know each other well and it's smooth sailing from there. blue

[bigedp51]

I just read an article by McMillan yesterday who said "just shoot it" and that was for a custom made barrel.

How is cleaning after each shot going to help break in a standard factory button rifled barrel when the bore looks like its full of speed bumps. Your bore brush and copper solvent isn't going to smooth the bore and polish the rough spots.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/990900081.jpg

As a side note I collect British military Enfield rifles, and the only person who removed any copper from the bore was the armourer during the yearly inspections. (once per year) Normally after shooting only boiling water was pored down the bore followed by an oiled patch on a pull through.

More damage is done by cleaning barrels than by just shooting them, and foam bore cleaner will remove the copper without using a cleaning rod and brush. I'm saying this because my last three new rifles went through the "break in" cleaning method at the range and when I got home the foam bore cleaner still removed an abundance of left over copper. The majority of us don't have hand lapped custom barrels that are smooth as glass when you get them, and cleaning a standard factory barrel after each shot is pointless due to their roughness. You are much better off using J&B bore paste or Iosso bore polish to smooth out the high spots and rough areas to prevent copper build up.

Is the "break in" cleaning method at the range going to help the factory Remington barrel below?

Please click on the bore scope videos below. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf9zZqn00CA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2n7Bm8Xzjw

[DanSavage]

I like to break in the factory savage barrels like Ace said because it breaks the barrel in quickly. Once the barrel is broken in, the way I can tell is by looking down the bore after you fire 20 shots in a row and see if that bore looks clean still with no signs of powder fouling lurking around at different stages of the barrel. Also I notice you will get worse 10 shot groups with a copper fouled barrel because the barrel will heat up a lot faster than a clean broken in barrel. I have fired around 200 rounds through my savage .308 that is now broken in and it will shoot a 5 shot group of .3 at 100 yrds first time out of the gun cabinet with a clean barrel and cold bore shot included. But it is also a 10FP and Federal Gold Medal Match 168 gr. ammo. I am also a mechanic of trade and I like working on guns more because it's alot easier than working on a Ford :D.

[bgc]

I also follow the break-in process as posted on the Savage Arms web site.

[bigedp51]

Advice from a pro

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/breakin.jpg

[cowboy924]

I don't mean to hijack the thread but I have a related question.
For those of you who do not clean until accuracy starts to fall off, do you do nothing at all at the end of your range session?
An oiled patch?
Clean out the powder fowling and just not worry about the copper?
Or ???

If you do nothing at all, have you ever had any problems with corrosion? How long between thorough cleanings? Days, weeks, months?

Thanks for any insight,
Luke

[Con]

A match grade barrel that has been lapped and polished should not require a break-in ... but people do it to feel better that they gave the barrel every chance. Sometimes (rarely) those match barrels are still dogs.

Factory barrels may, just may benefit from a bit of special treatment. I've read somewhere (cant remember where) that the reamers used by factories are solid pilot and these can raise slight burrs and curls in the barrel forward of the chamber.

For what its worth, I'm in the clean them well, swap with metho to remove all cleaning product residues, I then give the bore a decent swap with a bore conditioner made by Tetra, patch it out ... then shoot the heck out of it! ;D
Cheers...
Con

[bluealtered]

Well since i'm in the clean when needed camp now cowboy924, i have to say that i may run an oil patch through it if i know i won't be touching it again for months, or then again maybe not. I spent many years being a guy who would scrub the snot out of them even if i took just one shot, you know, the guy who wore out the barrel from cleaning.

Now i simply follow the builders instructions and let it go at that. No that doesn't mean i don't take care of them, i just don't feel the need to scrub them till the bluing comes off. blue

[bgc]

http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp291/bcls430/Firearms/IMG_0451.jpg

I scrub till the blue comes off.....
The round .30 patch is from a new barrel I have been breaking in with five rounds consecutively fire out of it.. The .17 patch and .22 patch are from barrels that have been broken in and have many rounds fire through them (Haven’t cleaned either in the past year, just oiled). I addition to following the Savage Arms break-in I also use J-B on a mop during the process. I have found it reduces the amount of copper stripped and the amount of time to clean.
FWIW the copper remover is ProShot, first patch out of each barrel after 10 minute soak, the barrels were cleaned with #9 before the copper remover was used.

[Eric in NC]

Well I can say this, I have had dozens of new barrels, (Both factory and aftermarket) and have tried both ways, and can honestly say there is no difference. I stop doing the break in myth a long time ago. All I can say is I must be doing something right, I am winning match's.


Agreed - cut, button, SS, chrome moly, M1, AR, single shot, etc. - don't see any difference in accuracy or longevity. Buy a quality barrel and shoot it.

[Out West]

I've been ingnorant of "break in" procedures for barrels. I've always just shot them. I get it that imperfections in the barrel will collect copper. And I can get "tight spots" as a result. What I don't get is how solvent, patch and brush can do anything to reduce the imperfections. Isn't it the repeated firing of bullets through the lands that smooths the imperfections? If so, why not just shoot it a bunch and then clean out the copper fouling? Other than lapping the barrel lands with some kind of compound, or shooting a lot, I don't see a brush or patch doing anything to smooth the rough spots.

Out
West

[bigedp51]

KRIEGER BARREL BREAK-IN & CLEANING

With any premium barrel that has been finish lapped -- such as your Krieger Barrel --, the lay or direction of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, so fouling is minimal. This is true of any properly finish-lapped barrel regardless of how it is rifled. If it is not finish-lapped, there will be reamer marks left in the bore that are directly across the direction of the bullet travel. This occurs even in a button-rifled barrel as the button cannot completely iron out these reamer marks.

Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets and deposits are fired over it; copper which adheres well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when we break in a barrel, our goal is to get the throat polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" procedure.

Barrels will vary slightly in how many rounds they take to break in because of things like slightly different machinability of the steel, or steel chemistry, or the condition of the chambering reamer, etc. . . For example a chrome moly barrel may take longer to break in than stainless steel because it is more abrasion resistant even though it is the same hardness. Also chrome moly has a little more of an affinity for copper than stainless steel so it will usually show a little more "color" if you are using a chemical cleaner. (Chrome moly and stainless steel are different materials with some things in common and others different.) Rim Fire barrels can take an extremely long time to break in -- sometimes requiring several hundred rounds or more. But cleaning can be lengthened to every 25-50 rounds. The break-in procedure and the clearing procedure are really the same except for the frequency. Remember the goal is to get or keep the barrel clean while polishing out the throat.

Finally, the best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break-in would be pointless. Conversely, if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.

CLEANING

This section on cleaning is not intended to be a detailed instruction, but rather to point out a few "do's and don'ts". Instructions furnished with bore cleaners, equipment, etc. should be followed unless they would conflict with these "do's and don'ts."

You should use a good quality straight cleaning rod with a freely rotating handle and a rod guide that fits both your receiver raceway and the rod snugly. How straight and how snug? The object is to make sure the rod cannot touch the bore. With service rifle barrels a good rod and guide set-up is especially important as all the cleaning must be done from the muzzle and even slight damage to the barrel crown is extremely detrimental to accuracy.

There are two basic types of bore cleaners -- chemical and abrasive. The chemical cleaners are usually a blend of various ingredients including oils and ammonia that attack the copper. The abrasive cleaners generally contain no chemicals and are an oil, wax, or grease base with an extremely fine abrasive such as chalk, clay, or gypsum. They clean by mechanically removing the fouling. Both are good, and we feel that neither will damage the bore when used properly.

So what is the proper way to use them? First, not all chemical cleaners are compatible with each other. Some, when used together at a certain temperature, can cause severe pitting of the barrel -- even stainless steel barrels. It is fine to use two different cleaners as long as you completely remove the first cleaner from the barrel before cleaning with the second. And, of course, never mix them in the same bottle.

Follow instructions on the bottle as far as soak time, etc. . . Always clean from the breech whenever possible, pushing the patch or swab up to the muzzle and then back without completely exiting the muzzle. If you exit the muzzle, the rod is going to touch the bore and be dragged back in across the crown followed by the patch or brush. Try to avoid dragging things in and out of the muzzle. It will eventually cause uneven wear of the crown. Accuracy will suffer and this can lead you to believe the barrel is shot out, when in fact, it still may have a lot of serviceable life left. A barrel with a worn or damaged crown can be re-crowned and accuracy will usually return.

The chemical cleaners may be the best way to clean service rifle barrels that must be cleaned from the muzzle -- i.e. M1 Garand, M14, etc. . .-- because this method avoids all the scrubbing necessary with the abrasive cleaners and the danger of damaging the crown. But again, as long as the rod doesn't touch the crown, abrasive cleaners should be fine.

Abrasive cleaners work very well. They do not damage the bore, they clean all types of fouling (copper powder, lead, plastic), and they have the added advantage of polishing the throat both in "break in" and later on when the throat begins to roughen again from the rounds fired. One national champion we know polishes the throats on his rifles every several hundred rounds or so with diamond paste to extend their accuracy life.

Again, as with the chemical cleaners, a good rod and rod guide is necessary. A jag with a patch wrapped around it works well. Apply the cleaner and begin scrubbing in short, rather fast strokes of about two to four inches in length. Concentrate most of the strokes in the throat area decreasing the number as you go toward the muzzle. Make a few full-length passes while avoiding exiting the muzzle completely, but do partially exit for about six strokes. You can avoid accidentally exiting by mounting the rifle in a vise or holder of some sort and blocking the rod at the muzzle with the wall or something to keep it from completely exiting.

This sheet is intended to touch on the critical areas of break-in and cleaning and is not intended as a complete, step-by-step guide or recommendation of any product.

The following is a guide to "break-in" based on our experience. This is not a hard and fast rule, only a guide. Some barrel, chamber, bullet, primer, powder, pressure, velocity etc. combinations may require more cycles some less!

It is a good idea to just observe what the barrel is telling you with its fouling pattern. But once it is broken in, there is no need to continue breaking it in.

Initially you should perform the shoot-one-shot-and-clean cycle for five cycles. If fouling hasn't reduced, fire five more cycles and so on until fouling begins to drop off. At that point shoot three shots before cleaning and observe. If fouling is reduced, fire five shots before cleaning. It is interesting to shoot groups during the three and five shot cycles.

Stainless
5 one-shot cycles
1 three-shot cycle
1 five-shot cycle

Chrome moly
5 - 25 - one-shot cycles
2 - three-shot cycles
1 - five-shot cycle

Thank you for choosing a Krieger barrel.

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

[bigedp51]

How to Break-in a Barrel
-- A Dissenting Point of View

Gale McMillan, of McMillan Stocks fame, was one of the finest barrel-makers and benchrest shooters of all time. Here he argues that elaborate barrel break-in procedures do more harm than good.

Comments collected from Gale's Gun Forum postings.

As a barrel maker I have looked in thousands of new and used barrels with a bore scope and I will tell you that if every one followed the prescribed [one shot, one clean] break-in method, a very large number would do more harm than good. The reason you hear of the gain in accuracy is because if you chamber a barrel with a reamer that has a dull throater instead of cutting clean sharp rifling it smears a burr up on the down wind side of the rifling. It takes from one to two hundred rounds to burn this burr out and the rifle to settle down and shoot its best. Any one who chambers rifle barrels has tolerances on how dull to let the reamer get and factories let them go longer than any competent smith would.

Another tidbit to consider--take a 300 Win Mag that has a life expectancy of 1000 rounds. Use 10% of it up with your break-in procedure. For every 10 barrels the barrel-maker makes he has to make one more just to take care of the break-in. No wonder barrel-makers like to see this. Now when you flame me on this please [explain] what you think is happening to the inside of your barrel during the break in that is helping you.

Consider this: every round shot in breaking-in a barrel is one round off the life of said rifle barrel. No one has ever told me the physical reason of what happens during break-in firing. In other words what, to the number of pounds of powder shot at any given pressure, is the life of the barrel. No one has ever explained what is being accomplished by shooting and cleaning in any prescribed method. Start your barrel off with 5 rounds and clean it thoroughly and do it again. Nev Maden, a friend down under that my brother taught to make barrels was the one who came up with the [one shot one clean] break-in method. He may think he has come upon something, or he has come up with another way to sell barrels. I feel that the first shot out of a barrel is its best and every one after that deteriorates [the bore] until the barrel is gone. If some one can explain what physically takes place during break-in to modify the barrel then I may change my mind. As the physical properties of a barrel don't change because of the break-in procedures it means it's all hog wash. I am open to any suggestions that can be documented otherwise if it is just someone's opinion--forget it.

It all got started when a barrel maker that I know started putting break-in instructions in the box with each barrel he shipped a few years ago. I asked him how he figured it would help and his reply was if they shoot 100 rounds breaking in this barrel that's total life is 3000 rounds and I make 1000 barrels a year just figure how many more barrels I will get to make. He had a point; it definately will shorten the barrel life. I have been a barrel maker a fair amount of time and my barrels have set and reset benchrest world records so many times I quit keeping track (at one time they held 7 at one time) along with High Power, Silhouette, Smallbore national and world records and my instructions were to clean as often as possible preferably every 10 rounds. I inspect every barrel taken off and every new barrel before it is shipped with a bore scope and I will tell you all that I see far more barrels ruined by cleaning rods than I see worn out from normal wear and tear. I am even reading about people recommending breaking-in pistols. As if it will help their shooting ability or the guns'.

More from Gale McMillan: http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.asp