Upgrading to Target Sear and Target AccuTrigger

[lskok]

Now that the Target Sears and Target AccuTriggers are no longer unobtanium, I’d like to start this thread to see what type of results people are getting after installing these.

Today I installed the target sear and trigger in a Model 10 top bolt release that I have. This rifle already had the target/varmint spring upgrade and was breaking around 2 lb. After dropping in the new sear and AccuTrigger, the trigger pull went up to around 2 lb 10 oz.

After a very light sear polishing (about 15 seconds of light work on 400 grit paper) the pull went down to 1 lb 10 oz. I didn’t want to do any more work on things until I can establish what exactly might need to be done to approach the mythical 6 oz pull.

I would love to hear about other’s experiences.

Lance

[Rocketvapor]

Wife's Savage 10 action from J&E started off at about 1.5 to 2 lbs. Adjusted trigger spring as low as it would go and got to about 1 pound.
Installed springs from Target accutrigger, cleaned up burrs on trigger and sear sides, shimmed trigger, and got 10 to 14 oz.
Cut 1.5 to 2 turns off Blade spring, blade force went from 8oz to about 3.5, TOTAL force to about 7oz.
Too low to use my spring scale.
Average of 10 pulls was 7.2oz. This was with the original trigger, sear, but the new ORANGE Blade.
I think blade force needs to be 50% or so of total force for it to be a "Safety" blade.http://www.savageshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10532&d=1710851057
Coming from an AR she was OK with the 2 pounds, Happy with the 12oz, REALLY liked the 7oz.
Got NO false trips.

[LDSILLS]

From reading other post your polishing is that is all that is needed. I understand why you can't go to down any further. There is a trigger timing of the sear with the trigger safety slide for Accu Triggers. So much while playing with my Red Target Accutrigger install yesterday and adjusting the Target Return Spring and the Safety Travel Screw I could easily get a bump fire. Thus it will go less than 6oz.

My advice is carefully adjust the Safety travel screw first. Do this by adjusting the safety screw until it just touches the safety slide. Best way is to do this is lay the action on the side and with one hand manipulate the safety switch and turn the safety screw to start. Stop when the safety will not cover up the red dot on the action. (safe position). Now an 1/8 turn at a time turn it out until the safety will hide the action red dot. Gentle turns of the safety screw can't be emphasized enough while doing this.

Now you can turn the safety return spring until the trigger acts like you want. You may have to move the safety screw again as moving the spring will change the pivot balance of the safety slide. Go easy on all adjustments. As your adjusting not only pull but safety function on Savage triggers.

It took me an hour or more to get the trigger set up to my trigger resistance liking.

I for one do not like trigger pull gauges as they really tell you nothing about individual pull. Instead adjust your triggers until they fit you the shooter. My opinion is trigger pull gauges should be locked up unless your troubleshooting firing operations.

[J.Baker]

Honestly I think most are going to find that you can tune a standard Accutrigger as low as anyone could realistically need short of maybe a benchrest shooter with a simple spring change and a little polishing work. I think most of this interest in the Target version stems more from people thinking they're missing out on something that they're really not.

[LDSILLS]

.... I think most of this interest in the Target version stems more from people thinking they're missing out on something that they're really not.

I sure found that out! But in these days paying $120.00 or so for knowledge seems cheap LOL Also I now have two savage triggers that perform kinda sorta okay!

Only time will tell how they do on the bench?

[Mark611]

JMO, and this come from tuning a lot of different trigger systems over the years, Savage, Glocks, and Air gun triggers {ETC} myself personally I like a 2-stage adjustable Match trigger in a rifle! The Savage ACCU trigger gives that kind of feel to me in a trigger, just about all the factory ACCU triggers out of the box on the rifles I have owned I can adjust without any other modifications to get a pull weight for me and sometimes too light to be 100% safe! I like my triggers in ounces, My HW air gun triggers for example have NICE somewhat long 1st stage that hit a wall that's solid enough not to pull thru but they break without think about it!!! that's the same feel I get from my ACCU triggers, maybe I got lucky on the Savage triggers I have owned? but for me they work! I'm a trigger snob!!! and I will not deny that! Triggers will help make or break your accuracy! If you have a trigger system that doesn't work for you then upgrade, it with a better trigger system, JMO

[lskok]

Honestly I think most are going to find that you can tune a standard Accutrigger as low as anyone could realistically need short of maybe a benchrest shooter with a simple spring change and a little polishing work. I think most of this interest in the Target version stems more from people thinking they're missing out on something that they're really not.
I think your onto something here. After my little experiment, I'm thinking Savage must be doing quite a bit of trigger work on their Target actions. And actually I'm starting to wonder why they even have two different sears to begin with.

At least now we have replacement sears available in case there are any mishaps when trying to do trigger work.

[J.Baker]

Well there's a reason Savage would only sell them to licensed gunsmiths - they're going to require some fitting and tuning like most any mass production part. Much as we like to think of Savage's as tinker toys with interchangeable parts, there are still certain areas that require hand fitting to a small degree. My biggest concern when it comes to things like this is someone reading discussions like this and jumping in blindly and potentially getting themselves in a dangerous situation with their firearm. We don't always know who all reads these posts or what their skill level is. Same applies to who's shopping on your webstore.

[Fuj']

Shot this yesterday with one of my "stock" PTA's and it's red bladed Accu trigger, set at "12 ounces"
It's my SA284 wild cat doing more load development.....

10561

[charlie b]

I agree Jim. Just like some of the other aftermarket, they require some final fitting before they perform up to their potential.

Fuj, nice results as usual. Were those 0.1gn steps?

[CFJunkie]

I would guess 0.2 on the first to second and 0.6 grs from first to third based upon the velocities.

Great shooting, Fuj

[Fuj']

I would guess 0.2 on the first to second and 0.6 grs from first to third based upon the velocities.

Great shooting, Fuj

These were at 3/10ths gr. apart. This actually was dumb luck since this target was the beginning
of the velocity work ups. I'll stay at 3/10's to reach the next node. Bottom line though is....Not bad
for a stock red blade trigger, and set heavy.

[CFJunkie]

Very Interesting, Fuj.

You groups are really good and show a distinct preference for 2,882 to 2,895 fps but the differences in the change in velocity for the same increase in powder charge confused me.
Normally, I find that adding 0.1 grain of powder charge results in from 5.5 to 6 fps increase and it is usually surprisingly linear for a pretty wide range of powders across a pretty wide range of velocities.
I've tested about 30 different powders and they were all about the same for both the slow burning powders and the fast burning powders.

It might be possible for temperature sensitive powders to gain velocity if there were a very large temperature change (maybe a round sitting in a hot barrel for a while before it was fired) but a 2.3x difference in velocity change is a big larger than I would have expected, since even the most sensitive powders increase only about 1.24 fps per deg F.

Your photo shows a 13 fps difference between 1st and 2nd group and 31 fps between 2nd and 3rd group with a total of 44 fps between the 1st and 3rd. That works out to be 7.33 fps per 0.1 grain of powder difference overall, which is greater than I expected, but wouldn't be all that different than what I would have expected if you were using a powder that I have never tested or you experienced a significant rise in temperature between the second group and the third group.
But the first two were 4.33 fps per 0.1 grain and the next two were 10.33 per 0.1 grain. That is a pretty big difference for the same delta powder increase.

Any idea why the differences for the same change in powder load weren't more linear?
Or do I need to retest some of my powders?

[Fuj']

Very Interesting, Fuj.

Any idea why the differences for the same change in powder load weren't more linear?
Or do I need to retest some of my powders?

Look at that target again. The last group has a nasty ES and SD and screwed the pooch.
Not sure what happened to that load. I screwed up at the bench somewhere. Groups
themselves though are very linear, drawing a line thru them......No temperatures came
into play. It was 40 degrees out and the barrel was barely luke warm.

Sorry about the jacking....

[gguinn]

So help out here, a struggling newbie, with some "Trigger Pull 101". Had my gunsmith install the orange blade target trigger assembly on a 12 VLP with the hope of getting trigger pull "somewhat" below 1 lb. He was not able to get below 1 1/2 lb, which is about what I got with the factory trigger. So the question is, how does one get trigger pull of the advertised 6 0z? is it trimming the safety blade spring, trimming the trigger return spring or somehow modifying the sear spring? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and be of of great help in understanding the discussions in this thread.

[Rocketvapor]

I have finished playing with the wife's trigger for the night.:rolleyes:
I'll comment more in my Member Build thread tommorow but with the right springs you can have a 2oz blade and a 7oz total pull with the standard trigger.
I could get lower but was really unstable so went back to 2/7.
Light blade, decent step up to trip the trigger and no false trips.
I also came up with a shim method that is a little more stable.

10672

I really like the CHEAP Digital pull gauge I bought.
Reads to the nearest tenth of an ounce starting at 1.7oz.
From lowest reading up to about 3 pounds it calibrates (with dead weight) to about 0.1oz.
Has Live mode plus Peak/Avg mode. Is a real help juggling blade and trigger spring force.
Unless you keep your finger calibrated, measuring spring force just makes good sense to me.

[pdog06]

So help out here, a struggling newbie, with some "Trigger Pull 101". Had my gunsmith install the orange blade target trigger assembly on a 12 VLP with the hope of getting trigger pull "somewhat" below 1 lb. He was not able to get below 1 1/2 lb, which is about what I got with the factory trigger. So the question is, how does one get trigger pull of the advertised 6 0z? is it trimming the safety blade spring, trimming the trigger return spring or somehow modifying the sear spring? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and be of of great help in understanding the discussions in this thread.

When you say you replaced the trigger “assembly”, did that also include the sear? Or was it just the trigger,red/orange blade, and springs?
Replacing just the trigger will not get you any lower than what you now have with out tweaking it. The target sear is different than the regular sear and that’s what allows the target trigger to go lower in pull weight.

[PhilC]

When you say you replaced the trigger “assembly”, did that also include the sear? Or was it just the trigger,red/orange blade, and springs?
Replacing just the trigger will not get you any lower than what you now have with out tweaking it. The target sear is different than the regular sear and that’s what allows the target trigger to go lower in pull weight.
+1 and gguinn (http://www.savageshooters.com/member.php?54026-gguinn) you might take moment to read reply #8 above, installing the target AccuTrigger is not "plug and play".

[Rocketvapor]

Hope I didn't upset the cart with my post.
You are correct, these are NOT Plug-N-Play.
The total trigger force you feel is from Springs, Friction, and Sear/Trigger Break force.
Until you get to really LOW spring force I doubt you will FEEL the different Sear/Trigger angle of the 'Target Trigger'.