.25-20 carbine dilemma

[BobT]

I have a .25-20 carbine barrel that I bought because I had 2 full boxes of Remington factory ammo. I bought the barrel new from Ed's several years ago and fired the 2 boxes of factory ammo and there it sat. The barrel shot very well with one box of ammo and okay with the other so I knew it had good potential. About this time, the .25 caliber 75 grain Speer flatpoint was discontinued, this was the bullet I wanted to shoot (of course) so I completely lost interest in the project. This past weekend I had a couple of tables at one of the bigger area gunshows so I took the barrel, dies and brass along and put it on the table. I had several lookers but nobody bit so I brought it back home, the dilemma is what to do with it. I thought I would ask for input from my fellow enthusiasts before making the final decision, the options I have considered are:

1. Continue to try to sell it

2. Keep it and rechamber it to something else

3. Lop it off into a pistol length barrel and shoot it

4. Stick it back in the safe so somebody can dig it out for my estate sale

I have thought seriously about a rechamber as just about anything I can think of would clean up the .25-20 and I happen to have 100 new pieces of .25-35 Winchester brass laying around. So what do you good folks think?

Thanks in advance!

[Blue Avenger]

LOL You created this dilemma for your self due to one bullet style being discontinued? If you have internet at your disposal, Try looking for a different one. Maybe cast? I'm being a smartass, But I see some humor in the situation. Nothing wrong with going to the 35 case if you really want to, But I think your giving up to easy.

[Slowpoke Slim]

That barrel sounds like a daisy.

The last thing I would consider would be cutting it up or mutilating it into something else.

Find another bullet or put it up for sale in the classifieds.

[J A XSP]

Seems like the only real issue is scarcity of brass. Since you have 40 rounds, you're ahead of the game. Brass can be formed out of 32-20 or 7.62 Nagant but those rounds are obsolete as well.
Bullets aren't really a problem at all. There are 60 grainers on Midway right now: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010483255?pid=726884 and there are several other options in the 60-80 grain weight range.
Put it up for sale...Heck, I'll be tempted, myself. Probably be a very cool round to play around with. :)

[BobT]

That barrel sounds like a daisy.

The last thing I would consider would be cutting it up or mutilating it into something else.

Find another bullet or put it up for sale in the classifieds.

I wouldn't consider it a mutilation, just changing it to something more interesting.



LOL You created this dilemma for your self due to one bullet style being discontinued? If you have internet at your disposal, Try looking for a different one. Maybe cast? I'm being a smartass, But I see some humor in the situation. Nothing wrong with going to the 35 case if you really want to, But I think your giving up to easy.

It really is kind of humorous, I do actually have a few of the old Speer bullets left but with no new supply I didn't see the sense in working up a load for them. I had a specific purpose in mind for this barrel and that was the only suitable bullet for the application and it was only marginally so.


Seems like the only real issue is scarcity of brass. Since you have 40 rounds, you're ahead of the game. Brass can be formed out of 32-20 or 7.62 Nagant but those rounds are obsolete as well.
Bullets aren't really a problem at all. There are 60 grainers on Midway right now: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010483255?pid=726884 and there are several other options in the 60-80 grain weight range.
Put it up for sale...Heck, I'll be tempted, myself. Probably be a very cool round to play around with. :)

I actually have 100 rounds of once fired Remington and I think I still have a fair amount of Starline .32-20 stashed somewhere.

Thanks for the replies so far ! Keep them coming, please.

[J A XSP]

I've been sort of looking for a "different" barrel to round out my collection...if you want to sell, message me and let me know what you're thinking. :)

[Bobby Tomek]

I've always thought a carbine barrel in 25-20 would make a great turkey gun or even a close-in coyote calling rig. They're interesting, no doubt, and don't need much fuel to get the bullet downrange. Plus, there's virtually no felt recoil. .

[Slowpoke Slim]

I wouldn't consider it a mutilation, just changing it to something more interesting.

There are probably many times more 25-35 barrels out there in the wild, compared to a 25-20 barrel. Especially in a carbine length.

Please don't cut it down or rechamber it. What a loss that would be. Sell it or trade it off for something else.

Try a 75 gr Hornady Vmax, or 75 gr Sierra in it. I've had great success with accuracy in my 256 Win mag and the 75 gr Vmax.

I would also be sorely tempted by that sweet little carbine barrel if you decide to part with it.

[Mjshell]

I’d sell or trade. Seems to be a lot of people in the know that have an interest.

[BobT]

I've always thought a carbine barrel in 25-20 would make a great turkey gun or even a close-in coyote calling rig. They're interesting, no doubt, and don't need much fuel to get the bullet downrange. Plus, there's virtually no felt recoil. .

It would make a great turkey gun Bobby but we are limited to shotguns in Missouri. I have had great luck with all three of the .32-20 based cartridges, I think I'll just try to find a G2 frame and play with that for a while, I've never owned a G2. Given the scarcity and prices of powder it may be the wisest move.

Anybody want to part with a G2 frame?

[sunnysmarine]

It would make a great turkey gun Bobby but we are limited to shotguns in Missouri. I have had great luck with all three of the .32-20 based cartridges, I think I'll just try to find a G2 frame and play with that for a while, I've never owned a G2. Given the scarcity and prices of powder it may be the wisest move.

Anybody want to part with a G2 frame?

I will step up, As my dog would say I:help: You can send it to me I will take real good care of it an find a load and bullet combo it likes I have losts of 25 cal bullets to feed it properly and plenty of oil to protect it, Though it might take a year or so to find the perfect combo

[FyrepowrX]

i've had an SSK 20" tapered carbine in 25-20win for quite a while, guessing 15-20 years now...its been a fun caliber. Also have a 9 blue MGM barrel i topped with a 1x burris as a walking plinker, and some years back i had a 21" tapered tube from the TC custom shop.

those 25/20's have been carried around a bit, and serves the same niche as a 22hornet for me, although i've never yet found a load that will quite hang with my best hornet loads. Dunno if that is a reflection on my barrels, or if i just need to tinker with loads more. For hundred yard or so varminting, the 25/20 seems to be a nice pleasant cartridge. (Ditto for the 32/20). Crows whacked with she 60gr hornadys come out of a tree RIGHT NOW, and they also dispatch coons/possums/etc quite well.

Kinda stinks that Speer dropped the 75gr speer flatnose as it was a great bullet. I never have been able to get the 60 gr Hornadys to shoot quite as well. Speer also used to make a 60gr spire point that was excellent...those have been gone a LONG time. My 21" TC custom shop tube did really well with the now gone Remington 86's.

My SSK shoots well with 75gr V-Maxs, and i've resumed trying to force it to like the Hornady 60's; this summer when it was hot & i didnt wanna go outside i assembled a whole bunch of test loads with a lot of different powders to see if if could find a magic combo. None of those have been fired yet, once deer season kicked into gear the rest of the world got put on hold. Now that the deer tags are filled, i'm back to tinkering with smaller stuff & squirrel hunting & predator hunting.

i also tried to see if there was a cast bullet combo that would shoot to about the same POI as my high velocity loads..hasn't happened yet. i left the 9" MGM sighted with mild plinking loads, and the SSK carbine is zeroed with peppy stuff. I think next time i go call varmints i'm going to haul that 25/20 out.

Milder cast bullet loads in the carbine are about as loud as hi-velocity .22's from a rifle...pretty tame to shoot.

I also did some tests with Lil Gun in the 25/20, and it did a pretty good job with 75's/86's...will see if i can dig that info up, that was probly 10-15 years ago.

Eventually i hope i'll stumble into a nice Marlin 1894classic in 25/20 at a good price, always wanted a levergun in that caliber.

in case somebody is thinking of cast bullets plinking:

https://i.imgur.com/6kHjX5N.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vAcvFMC.jpg

Over on the Marlin owners forum there is a very long & substantial thread on handloads for the 25/20...a few notes pasted below that i copied from that, but use caution as i have no knowledge of the sources , or the validity of data.

I've toyed with buying a second barrel in 25/20 to use as a dedicated cast bullet tube, but i tend to like tapered carbines rather than straight bulls for my walking around plinkers, and i dont see many tapered tubes of any kind any more.

to whoever ends up with this one, PM me and i'll send you some cast bullets to try....i think i still have some on hand.

G~

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25/20 data


15grains IMR 4198 , hornady 60gr, 2300fps+
13grains of IMR4198, 75 grain Speer,2000fps +
11grainsH4198 gets about 1720 fps with the 86 grain Remington.


10grains 2400 gets 2200 with the 60 Hornady SP


13grains Reloder 7 produces 1950 fps, with Lyman 257420
13grains Reloder 7 , 75 grain Speer gets a mild 1680 fps.
14grains Reloder 7, 75gr speer, produces a hair below 1900 fps.
12.2grainsReloder 7 produces 1700 fps with the Remington 86 grain SP


Hornady60gr jacketed data:


11.0gr 2400 2330 fps (decent accuracy; top end; very destructive)
15.0gr IMR 4198 2350 fps (good groups, very destructive)
14.0gr H4198 2270 fps (good groups, destructive)





75-grainSpeer FN 14.0 grains of Accurate AA-1680 powder and a Winchester WSRprimer. Muzzle velocity (in a Marlin 94) was 2,163 fps


12to 13 grains of Norma 200 gave velocities in the 1700-1800 range.(speer75)


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Forhigher velocities of around 1280 to 1300 fps with the Meister castbullet, try 5.5 grains 2400 or 6 to 6.5 grains H or IMR 4227.


85grain RCBS Cowboy flatpoint, 6.0grains IMR 4759 produces 1350 fps ...must weigh charges:



gr Red Dot 1200 fps (good accuracy, but better at around the 2.8 grain level for 1100 to 1150 fps; some measures will not throw accurately; others will).
5.9gr H4227 1190 fps (good load with excellent accuracy, but very mild; position sensitive, use dacron properly. Some unburned granules)
7.0 gr IMR 4759 1550 fps (cut a half grain; on the threshold of fliers. Reducing charge improves groups)
11.0gr H322 1540 fps (cut one half to .7 grain; position sensitive, dacron improves things greatly; fliers)
2.5gr Titegroup 1100 fps (average accuracy; not very position sensitive)
3.0gr Titegroup 1250 fps (accuracy better at 2.5 grains)
6.5gr IMR 4759 1480 fps (max velocity with reasonable accuracy. Dacron helpful, believe it or not)
7.0gr Alliant 2400 1640 fps (velocity too high for plainbase bullet)
7.0gr 5744 1230 fps (rather dirty burning; should be increased half a grain, dacron helpful





6.0gr IMR 4759 1350 fps (Excellent load, outstanding accuracy, 4579 meters rather poorly)
5.5 Alliant 2400 1300 fps (Excellent load, favorite for hunting, outstanding accuracy, meters well)
6.0gr Alliant 2400 1400 fps (Accuracy still good, not quite as good as 5.5 grains, but still usable with good power)
6.5gr H4227 (same as IMR now) 1290 fps (Excellent load, favorite for hunting, slightly dirtier than 5.5 2400)
10.0gr H4198 1520 fps (velocity slightly too high, fliers; cut one half grain for very good groups at 1450 fps. A more powerful small game load at 9.5 grains and suitable for the larger animals up to 30+ lbs with quick killing effect; for colder temperatures, position powder with dacron; not for extreme cold weather use)
10.5gr H4198 1620 fps (poor accuracy)
3.0 Herco 1060 fps (one inch groups at fifty yards consistently; best weighed)
3.0gr W231 1100-1140 fps (velocity range due to changes in powder lot; clean burning, easy metering, good accuracy, mild report. A favorite small game load with a fast pistol powder, reliable in even very cold temperatures).




Remington86 grain softpoint:
(Allprimers small rifle)
11.5gr H4198 1730 fps (decent accuracy, butrather mild - should be increased for optimum range)
13.0gr H41981930 fps (good accuracy and power)
13.5gr H4198 small rifleprimer 2000 fps (Wow - good power, top end load. This will killeverything and leave a big hole)
12.2gr Reloder 7 1700 fps (rathermild; increase needed)


Withthe 75 Speer:
(Allprimers small rifle)
13.5gr IMR4198 2070 fps (top end; excellentkilling power, good accuracy, less expansion than other jacketedbullets but still very adequate)
14.0gr IMR4198 2200 fps (+P loadonly for Marlins or strong single shots; NOT for old rifles; ExceedsSAAMI spec of 28,000 CUP; accuracy very good)
12.2gr Reloder 71740 fps (excellent accuracy, 0.5 inch at fifty yards, but rathermild)
13.9gr Reloder 7 1920 fps (excellent accuracy, 0.5 inch atfifty yards; this velocity is more like it)


Withthe Lyman 257420 gascheck, cast of linotype alloy:
11.0grAlliant 2400 2230 fps (no accuracy at all; +P)
8.5 H4227gr 1680fps (mild, shoots well, position sensitive, dacron helpful)
12.5grH322 1750 fps (rather position sensitive, believe it or not; goodaccuracy)
3.0gr Titegroup 1350 fps (indifferent accuracy; cutcharge)
9.0gr H4227 1780 fps (Position sensitive, shootswell)
3.0gr W231 1200 fps (shoots well, clean burning)
14.0grReloder 7 2170 fps (Max velocity, +P, cut one grain for betteraccuracy)
6.3gr 2400 1500 fps (Position sensitive, believe it ornot; better accuracy at 6.0 grains or less)




BulletIdeal 25720-90 grs 1892 Winchester 20" barrel
capacityloads.....
H322 - 12.0 - 1,584 fps
AA2460 - 13.5 - 1,606fps
H335 - 14.0 - 1,626 fps
AA2200 - 13.5 - 1,716 fps

[sunnysmarine]

https://www.mp-molds.com/bullet-casting-equipment/?pa_caliber=258 on sale finally I am getting the jackrabbit mold

[toddtd]

my friend's grandfather (who lived on a farm) had a 1892 Winchester in 25-20 and he hunted deer with it. he also killed some cows, foxes, turkeys, groundhogs, grouse....it was his tractor gun. when he died, i had the chance to buy it, but i was 19ish yo and why would i buy that? i should have slapped myself and ponied up the money. i buy it, but i don't have the money. he just bought factory ammo but he saved the brass.

[HotRodAl]

I've used Hornady 75 Vmaxes in a 10" Custom shop 25-20 barrel to take 4 deer, the first one was a neck shot between 55-65 yards left a 1" exit and it was an instant kill, 2 where lung hits with one getting the off shoulder neither deer went more than 25-35 yards before piling up, the last one was a spine hit and it took out part of the spine, very much damage there and of course it dropped right there. All shots where under 80 yards. Thats my total experience with the 25-20 on game.

I also use that same bullet in my 12" Virgin Valley 256 Win Mag with the same results, damage is a little more because of the higher velocity, more internal damage but it got the job done with great results. If you plan on using this on Squirrels you won't have much meat left unless you do head shots. LOL

[sunnysmarine]

I've used Hornady 75 Vmaxes in a 10" Custom shop 25-20 barrel to take 4 deer, the first one was a neck shot between 55-65 yards left a 1" exit and it was an instant kill, 2 where lung hits with one getting the off shoulder neither deer went more than 25-35 yards before piling up, the last one was a spine hit and it took out part of the spine, very much damage there and of course it dropped right there. All shots where under 80 yards. Thats my total experience with the 25-20 on game.

I also use that same bullet in my 12" Virgin Valley 256 Win Mag with the same results, damage is a little more because of the higher velocity, more internal damage but it got the job done with great results. If you plan on using this on Squirrels you won't have much meat left unless you do head shots. LOL

Great now I have to buy another bullet I dont need LOL

[BobT]

Well guys, I think you have convinced to give this one a fair chance. Several of the bullets you have mentioned I have found in stock so I'll get some ordered up and give them a whirl. Meanwhile, I have accumulated a couple more carbine barrels, a 23" 6.8 SPC and a 21" tapered .357 MAX that just arrived yesterday. I really appreciate all the information and data! You guys are the best!

[Iowa Fox]

Bob I'm envious on the 21" max barrel. I have a factory 14" and 20" Bullberry max but the 21" is a hole in my collection.

[BobT]

Bob I'm envious on the 21" max barrel. I have a factory 14" and 20" Bullberry max but the 21" is a hole in my collection.

I just lucked into that one, there was a fellow on another forum asking what size the forend screws were as he needed one to include so he could sell the barrel. I told him I would be interested with or without screws, one thing led to another and I ended up with the entire carbine kit. The wood is a little rough but the barrel looks pretty nice, I'm anxious to shoot it.