Model 12 LRPV in 223 Twist Rate

[Dave Hoback]

BTW... I am an old Philly kid- Lafayette Hill. Returned to Philly for grad school at Penn. So thanks! Mike L

No kidding? You’s from dis same jawn… like me? How ‘bout dat.

[CFJunkie]

Just so you won't think a 1:9 twist limits you to 69 and 70 grain bullets.

My 1:9 marked barrels on my 12 FV and on my CZ 527 both measure out slightly faster than 1:9 twist. As best I can tell with the cleaning rod technique, my 12 FV is about 8.75 or so.
(Dave and other machinists on this forum can attest better than I to how difficult it might be to get a barrel twist precisely to 1:9.)
I tend to believe that the twist rating is a guarantee that the twist is a "not slower than rating" rather than a guarantee that it is precisely right on the rated twist.

Much to my surprise, my 12 FV shoots 77 grain SMKs and TMKs and Nosler CCs and Berger bullets among the best of all the bullet weights.
I then tried 77s with my old (7000 round) CZ 527 1:9 twist and it shot the 77 gr SMKs as well as any other bullet it has ever shot over the years.

My 12 FV shoots 73 gr ELD-Ms better than any other bullet.
It also shoots 68 gr Hornady Match bullets incredibly badly - the worst of any bullets I have ever tried - to a 3x larger group average than 69 grain SMKs, TMKs, and Nosler CCs.
None of that seems to make any sense based upon conventional beliefs.
From my limited knowledge, I believe that performance in any barrel depends on the bullet shape as well as the weight.
The only way for you to figure out what your barrel prefers is to shoot bullets 'down the tube'.
I would recommend that you shoot a lot more than 1 group before you make any decision.

[Dave Hoback]

Good points CF. Here’s a great little article speaking of this very thing.

https://riflebarrels.com/twist-machine/

[charlie b]

I know the F/TR rifles have a 1:7 but the others I've seen in recent years were all 1:9

I second CFJ's experience with the .223 and 1:9 twist (I did not measure mine). It was on a heavy barrel Axis and it also liked the 77gn target bullets best.

[Dave Hoback]

I believe since 2007, a good many of the higher end precision Savage rifles in 223 are 1:7.

[CFJunkie]

Dave, I think I have seen recent 12 LRPV .223s in 1:9 and 1:7 twists.
The 1:7 twists are hard to find.

[Dave Hoback]

Yeah, your right. I shouldn’t have put all ​in there. I’ll edit. Below I linked the history here of Savage twist rates.

https://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?305-Savage-223-Remington-Twist-Rate-History

[qec238]

Update:
My Urban Rifleman barrel showed up today. 1/8" stainless. Replaced the recoil lug and barrel nut as well. Installed it and headed off to the range. Interesting outing.
- After sighting it in I shot 55gr loads for group and they were better then the factory but still sucked. Like 2" suck
- Switched to 68 SMK and shot the next 5 rounds into about 3/8". I've never shot a group that small before. I shot a second 5 round group into about 5/8". Those groups are with abgout 15 rounds down the barrel. Best group I had with the factory barrel was just under an inch.
- 77SMK did not group great for me either. Not as bad as the 55 but noting like the 69gr.
I only had about 30 minutes. I will go back later in the week to spend more time figuring this out. It's now looking like the 55gr issue is mostly related to the bullets. I'm going to pickup a different brand so see if I can do better. Oddly enough my AR15 with a AR Stoner 1/8 barrel shoots the 55gr bullets around an 1 - 1 1/2 inches.
Anyway, love the barrel. It was so easy to install once I had the right tools. Now I thinking about switching over my 308 Model 10 to 6.5CM just to reduce the recoil........ I only money

[CFJunkie]

gec238,

Every barrel has its preferences, so let it tell you what it likes.

It may take a 100 or more rounds to settle in and for you to get a feel for the rifle.
I was shooting my 12 FV .223 on Monday and it averaged just over .3 for 8 5-round groups of 52 ELD-Ms and 53 gr V-Max bullets with winds above 12 mph. It's long term average with those bullets are .295 and .268 respectively for a larger group sample so the last session was slightly worse than the norm.
That same rifle shoots 77 gr SMKs in the .27s and 73 gr Hornady ELD-Ms in the .24s.
Then I shot a CZ 527.223 that I hadn't shot in about 8 years. It's a lighter rifle with a different trigger.
I was surprised at how long it took me to get used to the different feel with a different rifle and get it to group well.
I expect I will have to shoot it again to get near what it is capable of.

Don't be surprised if it takes you a bit of time with a new rifle to get comfortable and consistent with it.

6.5mm CM is a very accurate caliber as is the 6mm CM.
I have three Savages in 6.5mm CM and that is a great caliber to reach out a long way with accuracy.
Two of them with 26-in barrels, a 12 LRP and a 12 FV, shoot almost the same accuracy with the same bullet weights.
The third one with a 24-in barrel likes lighter bullets and is slightly less accurate. It shoots accurately, but just slightly less accurately than the other two.

There is no way you can predict what bullet weight and powder a particular rifle barrel will shoot most accurately without trying different weights and powders.

[KMW1954]

qec238, sounds like you had a great time and will agree with how easy it is to change barrels.

I've been shooting a Model 11 with a Model 12 26" heavy 223 barrel. It has a 1:9 twist and likes 69gr bullets and 60gr VMAX. Now after shooting two years of competition with it it's starting to show it's age and round count. Will still hold under MOA but struggles to hold .5MOA. So it will probably be getting replaced this summer.

We may have to chat about that Urban Rifleman barrel and his service and pricing.

[qec238]

KMW reach out if you want to talk. Urban uses Wilson blanks and it was an advertised 3 week wait. The barrels are about $320 plus shipping and Visa surcharge.