Survival knife

[Whynot]

I was talking with my nephew (still a young kid) about what he would like for Christmas- and he wants a survival knife... One of the ones that has all the accessories with it- the fire starter, fishing line, and various other tools in the handle. I looked at a few stores and did a quick online search- but everything that fit that description seemed very low quality. Anyone know of a quality knife like that? I'd rather get him a good knife and then the other items in a kit- but for some reason he is really sold on the idea in needs to be part of the knife.

[GitU1]

Sounds like this is what you are looking for. Add your choice of fish hooks, line and matches.
https://www.budk.com/Licensed-Rambo-I-First-Blood-Fixed-Blade-Knife-17422

[Dave Hoback]

Whynot, I’m actually a custom Knifemaker so I keep track of what’s what. I’ve thought about making a few hollow handle knives, but never do because they are fundamentally weaker tools. That one listed above is “ok”. Which, in Knifemaker’s terms means, not great! But, a young boy may well love it because it says Rambo across the Ricasso. There are actually some custom made hollow handle blades, like Ed Martin knives, but doubt you are looking for something like one of those for a young boy as they cost $400, $500, $700 and up! Pretty much any hollow handle knife for even $100 or less will be junk!


I would sincerely try to get his mind shifted to a US M9 Bayonet survival knife if he just has to have a bigger, movie style knife. They are fairly tough, decently produced US copies under $200. Then just make up your own “survival” kit to stick in the pouch.. some fishing line & hooks, matches, whatever. Maybe a needle & thread, LOL! Either the one made by Ontario https://www.amazon.com/Ontario-Knives-Bayonet-Fixed-Handle/dp/B00440GLD2/ref=sr_1_9?crid=158E8BTJPA0N0&keywords=US+made+M9+Bayonet&qid=1701864327&sprefix=us+made+m9+bayonet%2Caps%2C83&sr=8-9

Or this one by Smith & Wesson. https://www.amazon.com/Smith-Wesson-Special-SW3G-Bayonet/dp/B0014VIOLQ/ref=sr_1_5?crid=158E8BTJPA0N0&keywords=US+made+M9+Bayonet&qid=1701864327&sprefix=us+made+m9+bayonet%2Caps%2C83&sr=8-5

Or a Rothco. https://www.amazon.com/Rothco-Stainless-Steel-Style-Bayonet/dp/B000JI5GSE/ref=sr_1_7?crid=158E8BTJPA0N0&keywords=US+made+M9+Bayonet&qid=1701864327&sprefix=us+made+m9+bayonet%2Caps%2C83&sr=8-7

And this is the real deal! A Phrobis III M9.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225652529214


By the way, here’s a great article about these hollow handle “survival” knives & why they are so bad. https://freerangeamerican.us/understanding-the-survival-knife/

[GitU1]

This is the one I actually own. They seem to have gone up 4 times in price since I bought it many years ago.
https://www.bladehq.com/item--Buck-Knives-Vintage-BuckMaster-184--35491

[Dave Hoback]

Lol! Yeah, the good ol’ “Buckmaster” survival. I remember dreaming about that knife when I about 13! It was like $200 back then. Now that I make knives & have learned, I know for the money, that Buck is junk! If a person was going to drop $700 on a knife like this, look at an Ed Martin like below. However, as I already said & the article I listed pointed out, spending that kind of money on a hollow handle knife is absurd!


https://i.ibb.co/CtpLCqx/AC9-F1-B13-6771-4-AF8-A41-A-630-C077-D5-B6-F.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[Whynot]

Thanks for the replies.... That rambo one is the best so far- but am going to go a different direction. A local maker is going to let him come to his shop and give him some "limited" input and build him a knife. Talking to the guy he mentioned that his wife does the leatherwork for all of the scabbards- so she is going to also build a small leather pouch for putting the kit in. The knife builder listed some steels that he likes to use for those types of knives- his reason being they are not brittle and not likely to chip- but (like the article) he also said that they do not have as good of edge retention as some other steels--and they are all full tang.

Dave.... curious if you are saying "that Buck is junk" or for the cost that specific knife is junk? I have a s30v (or maybe s35) buck knife that I have been very happy with-- but haven't really ventured into the super steel knives very much-- maybe I'm leaving a lot on the table-- but my blades often get used as screw drivers/scrapers and pry bars.

[Dave Hoback]

No, Buck knives are fine. They aren’t Benchmade, or Spyderco or Zero Tolerance, but they don’t cost what those do in general. No, I was simply referring to that knife specifically. Like I said, it was around $200 when I was a kid in the early 90’s! As it happens, I carried a Buck 110 folder at the same time in history. The Buck survival knife being sold for $200 is laughable, let alone $700!

Steel is something near & dear to my heart. I’ve spent many years in the study of Metallurgy; researching, chatting with Metallurgists online & and am 100% a Steel nerd! One thing I wanted to ask, the Knifemaker you are taking your grandson to, does he machine knives, using high alloy Carbon & Stainless steels…. Or is he a “blade-Smith” & planning to forge a knife? I ask because I’ll simply give you the facts that have been lied about for decades. The best knives, that is being the strongest, toughest & having the highest edge retention & corrosion resistance, in the world, are not forged, as many blade-smiffs have been telling people for years & years. No, the very best knives are in fact made from modern steel. These are combinations of high alloy, high speed & tool steels, both Carbon & Stainless, and most of them being made by way of P/M processing. These types of steels will LAUGH at a Smiff trying to heat them & beat them with a hammer/anvil! They can’t be forged! They must be made via stock removal. Which is essentially machining. Or, taking a bar of steel & removing everything that isn’t the knife, I like to say.

By the way, P/M, although in other steel manufacturing, refers to Powder Metal, this P/M actually stands for Particulate Metallurgy type process. My favorite of these steels are made by Crucible Industries, who was the first to use this technique & thusly named theirs CPM, or, Crucible Particulate Metallurgy.

[Whynot]

^ I'm not as familiar with all the techniques.... and am not going back to the shop until Christmas vacation so he can pick out what he's after. Just guessing- but think the answer to your question would be both.... He had some very fancy damascus blades- but didn't recommend them for the purpose. He had 2 steels he recommended.... can't remember the one- but (90% sure) the other was 154 cm or cm154.... something like that. He showed me some of it and it was in strap form- so I wouldn't think you would forge it - but rather shape it-- and then heat treat it? But to be honest I'm not sure-

[Dave Hoback]

Yes, it’s 154CM stainless. No, that would not be forged. I’ve had a few blades using it. It’s decent. Largely used first by Benchmade, it was the replacement Stainless Steel for 440c. Many consider it superior to 440c and inferior to S30V. Personally, I group them about the same.

Personally, I would rather a high alloy tool steel for a large blade. It’s the reason I use only CPM3V for all my heavy use, camp, hunting & survival blades.
Some other decent steels are Cruwear, Vanadis4E For small blades (folders) and wet use knives (fishing knives, chef’s knives), I use CPM20CV stainless.

[Stumpkiller]

Don't confuse survival with camping or hiking. A survival knife is whatever you have on you when things go pear shaped. I recommend a Victorinox SAK Fieldmaster. I dropped the toothpick and swapped in a Tortise Firefly (fire steel) and Helix Tinders to wind into the corkskrew. Fits right beside my wallet and I have it at all times that I am dressed, everywhere. Can't carry it in-flight but even buildings with Federal Courts don't get too upset (that is - you get it back when you leave). I have LOTS of other knives . . . but this one I have at all times. Also a CKRT Concierge in D2 as my EDC in a pocket clip.

[Dave Hoback]

Yes, that is what the article I posted outlines. You should read it. Survival Knife was first used by the the US Air Force in the 1950’s with the AFSK, but was mostly forgotten as most people preferred the larger Marine Corps Ka-Bar Combat Knife. The term was then re-hashed in the 1980’s as a marketing scheme kit off by the First Blood movies.

You are correct in that any knife on a person may be used in the role of survival. One important thing: those of us who understand blade science through & through, who make knives and know the different steels characteristics & understand why certain blades are used in certain roles… we Don’t ever say those two words “Survival” & “Knife” together in any serious capacity, LOL!