Ideas for gun build -

[BFlynn]

I really appreciate everyone's input and feedback! There's a lot for me to get my head around (and learn). I also appreciate that everyone is good at spending other's people money. ;) I'm also good at that!

A few details about the gun:
It does have the 5R rifling, and is a 26" barrel. My brother ended up getting the same rifle in .308. That comes with a 20in barrel. I'm mostly sure that the 22-250 is a 1:8 twist rate, but I've emailed Savage for specs.

"extra" scopes I have:
4.5-14x Burris MTac, 3-12x Nikon Monarch, 2.5-10x Nikon Monarch. 4-16x Vortex Diamondback. They're all decent enough. Might need more glass to go to 600... but these hold zero, and the Burris and Vortex have the ballistic turrets for adjustment. For anyone interested - I've gotten a couple scopes from Primary Arms. I've been real impressed - at least on hunting rigs, and the customer service has been awesome.


So for calibers - what I'm getting is that the 6mmBR is a great choice if I can reload, but for store bought options, 6.5 CM is probably the best choice.
I don't have the skillset for reloading. I've got the diagnosed squirrel brain. Attention to detail is not my strength. My brother reloads though, and he's a pretty good engineer. We have a barter system that normally involves some mix of smoked meat, empty brass, and brown liquor, in exchange for reloaded ammo. I'll have to see if he's agreeable to another cartridge. We've already got a couple of 9.3x62 project guns going that he'll have to make all the ammo for.

Also, appreciate the feedback on barrel choices.

[BFlynn]

I didn't even know 6mm BR was thing!

I'll definitely give Jim a call. After posting this, ran into someone at my range with a savage bench rest gun he had put together, and really liked his criterion barrel.

[BFlynn]

From the little bit of research I was able to quickly do last night, I didn't find any reviews on the 22-250 model but it appears that rifle came with a heavy Varmint barrel with a 5R Rifling and the barrel length is either 24" or 26". Couldn't find what twist rate they used but if they actually did use a 5R Rifling then I would guess they also used a faster that 12 twist. Which will allow you to use 69gr or heavier bullets depending on the twist.

Now if BFlynn still insists on changing barrels I may be interested in relieving him of that old one!

Those are both interesting ideas. I'll let you know, what I decide either way.

[KMW1954]

BFlynn, as stated, I have been competing with a Savage in 223Rem for 2 seasons already and getting ready for a 3rd. We have 20 members in this league and I am the only one shooting a 22. Majority are shooting some form of 6mm, 1 30BR, 1 7mm08, I believe 3 308, a couple 6.5CM.. I shoot the 223 with a 69gr bullet and right now experimenting with a 60gr VMAX. I've been able to hold my own against the avg. shooters while there is a large gap between the top shooters.

I honestly feel the hold up for me has been the use of the wrong glass. What works for PRC shooting doesn't do well for what we are shooting. Personally I would not hesitate to shoot a 22-250 in this league. Which again my goal was to be shooting this Savage with a Shilen barrel chambered in 6ARC.. The ARC will compete with the 6mmBR Norma when run as a bolt rifle with the actual difference between the two when loaded with the same bullets and powder being a reduction in speed with the ARC of only about 50FPS.

So I do not know what the cost difference is between the 6ARC and the 6.5Creedmore in factory loads or even the factory 22-250.

Something else to think about. The 22-250 uses the same bolt head as the 6mmBR and I believe the same for the 6.5CM. The ARC uses the same bolt head as the 6.5Grendal.

[big honkin jeep]

Squirrel brain or not I'd go with a starter hand loading kit. Its the biggest accuracy gain you can make to any factory rifle in good working order. It's also not as hard as some might deduce from reading online, basic reloading's actually simple as.a matter of fact it's
just basic mechanics. Youre just replacing components of a simple device composed of case, propellant, ignition, and fuel. Pull the lever and the case is deprimed and sized. Squeeze the handle the primer is replaced. Fill it with fuel (powder) and pull the lever to seat the bullet into place. Stay within the minimum and maximum charges in the manual and youre golden.
Test fire with different charges within that window and select which one shoots best.
A starter kit like the Lee can be had for under $150 whats that? The cost of 3 or 4 box's? Then another $35-40 for dies and a few bucks for consumables I still use one my wife bought me 30+ years ago though over time I've added items to my bench. It still turns out plenty of one ragged hole ammo tuned for my rifles.
Jump on in the waters fine and you can make it as simple or complicated as you want to.

You can spend all the money building a custom rifle you want to, but unless youre lucky enough to find a load it likes, its not going to give top performance and often will shoot no better than a factory rig.
With a kit you tune the load for your rifle and make top shelf stuff for barrel bottom money.
Ill say again the biggest accuracy improvement for the least money available, and it will work with all your firearms. Ammo is the key to accuracy in a properly functioning firearm.
Good luck BHJ

[centershot]

Flyn,
I also am doing a "project gun". Bought a 110 in .30/06 and have added a 6.5 CM and a .220 Rocket barrels. Search for whatever shooters are selling in the way of used barrels and then play with it. Put a Boyd's stock on it with a large barrel channel. I may also get into magnum cases and change the bolt head.
I am having a lot of fun doing this. Just for punching holes in paper. All started when a friend was selling his barrel vice, action wrench and a nut wrench.
Dave, may take you up on the Accutrigger!

[BFlynn]

That's helpful to hear. I think I'm going to have to bite that bullet, so to speak.

So in terms of building a target gun, that won't break the bank, it sounds like the priorities are:

1) Load Developement

2) Good barrel

3) Glass

4) Chassis

None of which matter, if the biggest problem is still between my ears.

Follow up questions - what do y'all look for in a scope?

Savage touts the aluminum block bedding as helping to improve accuracy. Would you see much benefit from something like an MDT Oryx?


Also - and I realize I'm asking a partial group - what do you like about Savage actions, over brands like howa, ruger, remington?

[KMW1954]

Have kind of given my impression of scopes back in post 19. It sort of depends on what you intend to do with it. If trying to shoot very small targets at distance then a Second Focal Plain scope with a very fine reticle and 1/8 MOA adjustments really pays off. In my case I am using an Athlon Argos BTR GenII 10-40X56, https://athlonoptics.com/product/argos-btr-gen2-10-40x56-blr-sfp-moa/ , there are others in this category but most are much more money. If interested in PRS type shooting or varmint shooting then the FFP scopes shine.

In your case my order would be; Load, Glass, Chassis, barrel. I truly believe that Savage 22-250 barrel will hold up well against any other factory barrel and not be far behind many of the aftermarket prefits. It it were me I would shoot it until it has proven it will not perform or you advance in skill and ability. Heck after a year you could even lose interest!

Chassis selection is more personal preference and what strikes your fancy. We all have different likes, looks and needs.

Load development is essential if serious about shooting bug hole groups. Bullet choice and combinations of bullets, powder and load level can all be tuned for maximum performance.

My personal experience is I started with the 223 as an inexpensive way to get started and involved. Now after 2 seasons I have taken this rifle as far as it will go w/o making a change. I am at the point that I am thinking stepping up to the 6mm round or moving to a more Match type barrel with a much faster twist for the 223 to enable the use of more Match type and weight bullets.

This is what I am shooting in league to 300 yards. Also A 300yd target, 223Rem

99709971

[big honkin jeep]

Scope choice definitely wouldnt be a Burris Mtac 4.5-14x. Though the image is really clear and bright the crosshairs are way too thick for target work and will cover an entire group from a well tuned up 22-250.
They are great for hunting or tactical work where heavy easily seen reticles on center mass quickly are desired.
If I were going to reccomend a general multi use scope for a 26" 22-250 it would probably be a Burris E1 6.5-20x50. Relatively inexpensive if you shop around and the ballistic E1 reticle on this model is designed with drop and windage .arks to specifically match the trajectory of the 22-250. Its what I recently put on my model 12 BVSS and I like it a lot.
With regards to barrel if you tune a load for what you've got you'll probably be shocked how accurate it is. The .224 diameter bullets are super versitile and.also a bargain and usually come in 100 count boxes and are generally much cheaper than anything larger and they're constantly readily available in a really wide variety of weights and bullet styles. The cases dont burn a huge amount of powder either. The 22-250 is an economical flat shooting speed demon. Hornady has also just come out with some.new specialized high BC target bullets that will probably benefit the 22-250 even more than the propriatary cartridge Hornady is marketing them for.
As far as stocks fo the factory aluminum bedding blocks are quite sufficient for excellent accuracy when properly torqued. Personally I'd leave it alone, add good mounts and glass, tune up a load. and get after it.
I think you have a lot more rifle than you realize and with a little development and a tuned load are going to be shocked what its capable of.

[BFlynn]

Yeah, I don't think this Burris MTac is going to get much use. I bought it on clearance, to try a mil dot scope. I don't like a mil dot scope. I have too many scopes as it is.
Glad to hear that you like the E1. I'm going to keep my eye out.

Which Hornady 224 bullets are you talking about? I saw they have the aluminum tipped ones now. They also have an 88 gr ELD Match. I never know how much of the marketing to believe, and don't know enough to weed through the BS.

Now that I've gone down this rabbit hole... I've decided to keep the 22-250.....
Worked out an arrangement within the family. I clean out a portion of the garage, to make my wife happy. My brother (who just moved down and lives close by) sets up his reloading stuff in my garage. We get to reload and have an excuse to hang out.

Do you have mounts that you recommend? I've always used Warne or Leopold rings - but those may not be sufficient.

I'm wondering if anyone has used these tuning brakes (https://www.harrellsprecision.com/products/radial-ported-tuner-brakes) . If you use match grade ammo, and one of these tuners, can you get results closer to a tuned hand load?

[BFlynn]

That's really helpful to see. And that scope is on sale at Academy for $400. I have too many scopes already. Maybe I can purge a couple.

[Dave Hoback]

That's really helpful to see. And that scope is on sale at Academy for $400. I have too many scopes already. Maybe I can purge a couple.

While there are other scopes in this price range I would look to, notably I would not invest in scope/hardware with 1” tube as I believe it’s obsolete anymore. However, the reticle matches your 22-250 & and the 6.5-20x is good power range for near & far. So it’s likely a good bet for you. However, do not spend $400 on that E1 scope! The estimated retail is $359 according to Burris. And you can buy it for $311 here. https://www.amazon.com/Burris-Fullfield-4-5-14x42mm-Riflescope-Ballistic/dp/B00TU6IKXO/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3N97HB223S3RQ&keywords=Burris%2BE1%2B6.5-20x50&qid=1698519424&sprefix=burris%2Be1%2B6.5-20x50%2Caps%2C148&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

For rings, if you already have Warne or Leupold, they will work fine. Much in the way of optics hardware is just style. We’ve discussed this here several times actually. Whether using the inexpensive Leupold standard rings, a modern Picatinny rail & nice set of 30mm of 34mm 7075-T6 Billet Aluminum Rings or even a $400 1-piece Spuhr mount, they will all do what they are supposed to. Just stick with name brands & the style you like. While I’ll spend $150 on rings & I use the Audere 34mm PSR rings, but I won’t spend $400!

With scope hardware there is diminishing returns. While the Leupold standard rings are fine on a hunting rifle, I wouldn’t use them on a Target rifle. Or with very heavy cartridges. But once you get to the 7075 Aluminum Picatinny rails/rings, they will easily survive even 50BMG punishment. So at this level it becomes purely about style.

[big honkin jeep]

Hornadys new .224 bullet is the ELD VT. They're releasing it along with their new cartridge the .22ARC. Pretty sure the ARC will flop because .223 will rule the AR platform for eternity and it doesnt do what the 22-250 they compare it to already does in a bolt action. That said new " high tech" bullet designs and advancements are always welcome.
Im cheap. I'd probably shop penny auctions on GB till I found an E1 at the right price. If I remember right I picked one up for like $239. Those scopes may be discontinued cause I know a while back there were a ton of em on the market clearance priced. Its pretty much a general purpose scope but has very good performance that wont break the bank and a forever warranty you wont need.
The Mtac is a great scope. Ive had one on an SR25 pattern rifle for quite a few years. Its just purpose designed for tactical rifles so not the best for pinpoint type target shooting.
Bases and rings are up to you and their are a zillion options. I like a set of medium height dual dovetails just for their set it and forget it simplicity and rugged design. They also provide lots of room at the ejection port with good acess for single loading, cleaning and maintenance, Standard leupolds etc work just fine and he DNZ stuff is solid too. Some guys like picatinny setups but most set the scope up too high for me to use or the rail and bell dont jive for me limiting fore and aft movement. Im a stock crawler and like.my setup as low aa I can get it.
I know the old fullfield 2s were awesome optics but the ones I have are from back when they were made in USA. Prettt sure the 6.5-20 fullfield 2s are also calibrated for 22-250 but without the windage hashmarks and theyre around $200 and probably less.
Everybodys budget etc is different, but I've done pretty well with decent lower budget equipment. A fella can spend a lot more and get a lot less.
Hope you find a setup that works for you and a one hole load for your rifle.
Ps sierra accuracy loads and nosler most accurate load tested are a very good place to start. They can often be tweaked a little for excellent results. Sometimes not.

[BFlynn]

Flyn,
I also am doing a "project gun". Bought a 110 in .30/06 and have added a 6.5 CM and a .220 Rocket barrels. Search for whatever shooters are selling in the way of used barrels and then play with it. Put a Boyd's stock on it with a large barrel channel. I may also get into magnum cases and change the bolt head.
I am having a lot of fun doing this. Just for punching holes in paper. All started when a friend was selling his barrel vice, action wrench and a nut wrench.
Dave, may take you up on the Accutrigger!

So are you swapping barrels, back and forth, on the rifle?

Because that idea is what got me started down this rabbit hole to start with. What I'd really like is to be able to have 1 hunting rifle, with barrels in 6.5 PRC, 300WM, and maybe a 35 Whelan.
I'd also like it to break down to fit into a shorter case. But before I go switching barrels back and forth, I thought I'd see if I could switch them once.

When you go from 30/06 to 6.5CM do you have to change bolts or anything else?

[BFlynn]

Hornadys new .224 bullet is the ELD VT. They're releasing it along with their new cartridge the .22ARC. Pretty sure the ARC will flop because .223 will rule the AR platform for eternity and it doesnt do what the 22-250 they compare it to already does in a bolt action. That said new " high tech" bullet designs and advancements are always welcome.
Im cheap. I'd probably shop penny auctions on GB till I found an E1 at the right price. If I remember right I picked one up for like $239. Those scopes may be discontinued cause I know a while back there were a ton of em on the market clearance priced. Its pretty much a general purpose scope but has very good performance that wont break the bank and a forever warranty you wont need.
The Mtac is a great scope. Ive had one on an SR25 pattern rifle for quite a few years. Its just purpose designed for tactical rifles so not the best for pinpoint type target shooting.
Bases and rings are up to you and their are a zillion options. I like a set of medium height dual dovetails just for their set it and forget it simplicity and rugged design. They also provide lots of room at the ejection port with good acess for single loading, cleaning and maintenance, Standard leupolds etc work just fine and he DNZ stuff is solid too. Some guys like picatinny setups but most set the scope up too high for me to use or the rail and bell dont jive for me limiting fore and aft movement. Im a stock crawler and like.my setup as low aa I can get it.
I know the old fullfield 2s were awesome optics but the ones I have are from back when they were made in USA. Prettt sure the 6.5-20 fullfield 2s are also calibrated for 22-250 but without the windage hashmarks and theyre around $200 and probably less.
Everybodys budget etc is different, but I've done pretty well with decent lower budget equipment. A fella can spend a lot more and get a lot less.
Hope you find a setup that works for you and a one hole load for your rifle.
Ps sierra accuracy loads and nosler most accurate load tested are a very good place to start. They can often be tweaked a little for excellent results. Sometimes not.

Yeah, I try to buy "good enough to get the job done" or maybe just above that. I don't like to overspend on features I don't need.... so I really appreciate everyone's help!

[Dave Hoback]

So are you swapping barrels, back and forth, on the rifle?

Because that idea is what got me started down this rabbit hole to start with. What I'd really like is to be able to have 1 hunting rifle, with barrels in 6.5 PRC, 300WM, and maybe a 35 Whelan.
I'd also like it to break down to fit into a shorter case. But before I go switching barrels back and forth, I thought I'd see if I could switch them once.

When you go from 30/06 to 6.5CM do you have to change bolts or anything else?

Going between 30-06 & 6.5Cm, No, a bolt head is not needed. Provided you start with a 30-06 LA, nothing else besides the Barrel is required.

[charlie b]

Swap barrels and compact case. I'd ask someone who has done it how much the zero changes between swaps. For the compact case you have to consider the fore end of the stock as well. Do you leave the stock full length? If so you could just remove the barreled action from the stock and have something almost as short as the stock (or shorter). If you cut the stock then how much.

I only ask cause I have tried to work this kind of thing through myself and I've often wondered how well the take down systems really work. I suspect well enough for close range hunting, but, precision? Maybe set up each barrel as a scout scope setup and maybe the zero would not change as much?

All of that was what got me to go down the rabbit hole of TC Contender barrels a long time ago.

[centershot]

I have to sight in my rifle every time I swap barrels. Don't mind doing that. loads of fun!

[BFlynn]

I'd really like to take you up on your generous offer for help with the trigger. How do we put that in motion?

[BFlynn]

CharlieB -

I think they work well enough for hunting. I've talked with a guy on another forum that had swapped barrels and felt he could change calibers and could use the gun as a functional hunting weapon out to 500 yards. I'll try to find the link.
Basically has the scope zerod for one caliber, and knows the adjustments for each different barrel. He recommended shouldered barrels, and adding a set screw in the barrel nut to ensure everything is seated the same.

I've got a buddy that hunts with a Blazer and he feels like 300 yards is the limit of his effective range. I don't plan on hunting anything further than that.

As a test - I took my hunting rifle to the range, shot a good group at 300 yards. Removed the stock from the gun. Reattached the stock, and shot another good group without moving the point of impact. So that may be my method.
Regardless - I won't try anything hunting, that I haven't confirmed on the range first.