Replacement Stock Recoil Lug Cutout

[KMW1954]

In the past few years I have done 3 Boyd's stocks and a Richards Microfit stocks for Savage. One was a Boyd's Spike Camp for a Blind mag Model 10. The second stock was a Richards Field Trekker for a DBM Model 11.. 3 and 4 were Boyd's At-One for the Model 11.

The Richards was completed and had it outside to take some finished pictures. I had the rifle leaning against a deck rail to set up bags and as I turned to grab the rifle a heavy wind gust picked up and blew the gun. It fell between the rails 4' onto a concrete pad. The stock split between the bolt notch and between the Trigger and mag well cutouts. That stock also had pillars installed. The rear pillar was broken out. After that I replaced with the At-One.

I have gone thru 2 At-One stocks for this Model 11. The first one I pillared and bedded. It shot very well for about a month then became erratic. Pulled the barrel and action to find the stock de-laminated between the mag well and trigger cut-out, yes on both sides of the pillar. Boyd's replaced the stock. The second one I only added a pillar to the front action screw. So I have had bad experience with Two Savage Stocks that have the DBM and trying to Pillar them. My opinion for what it is worth is there is not enough material between the mag well, action screw and the trigger cut-out to add a Pillar w/o weakening the stock.

When I started this venture I was getting help from a member on another form that had been a Stock maker and gunsmith for almost 50 years and he tried to warm me of this. He also stated that he did not pillar any stock that was less than a Magnum Caliber or being and old Mauser Action. The second Boyd's stock is now just over two years old and still tight. So this is something you might take into consideration.

98539854

[Dave Hoback]

What epoxy did you use? I’ve never seen any of the epoxies I use split like that. And yes, while any 2-part will work, they do have different types & strengths. Also mixing it properly & thoroughly is crucial.

I’m sorry but your pictures are telling me a completely different story than simply a problem with Boyd’s stocks. And I’m no fan of wood stocks either. Any of them!

[Rivethead]

That's eye-opening, to say the least... Thanks for posing those pics, i'll have to look into that area...

I had considered their pillar option but didn't like the fact they would only install one, so I asked Boyds why. They told me there wasn't enough wood between the rear action screw and the trigger cutout so they wouldn't do it... I couldn't see any point in just one pillar, so decided I would do it myself.

Looking at the stock, there really isn't much space for even the normal action screw between the sear bar, let alone a larger pillar- I can see how this area might be weakened. At first glance there seems to be enough metal in the bent steel piece that forms the sear (right next to the action screw-where many pillars are notched for clearance)- that it might be possible to radius the metal & provide more screw clearance thus more area for epoxy reinforcement... I dunno - just a thought.

I plan on removing the trigger assembly but right now I am having difficulty getting the magazine box off - I have read all the tricks and tried everything I can think of (without bending something) and it won't budge... it almost looks like they staked the sides on the receiver to lock the front tab in. I may have to leave it on and tape/putty around all the angles, but I wonder how much epoxy could run down any gaps I can't see in the mag well cutout- it would need to be dammed really well and still be able to pull the action out - a problem I'll have to chew on a while...
9866

On another note, just a FYI on that 23 YO Acraglas... it still works ! I don't know how well, but I took another look, and it is still somewhat soft and mixable- I grabbed a couple random pieces and put them together last night, and it's solid today... I don't trust it enough to use for this project, so I'm gonna still get fresh epoxy, but I thought it interesting it still works - probably good for noncritical use...
9865

[Dave Hoback]

There is an easy way. It’s better if you have a barrel vice, but if not, you need to somehow secure the rifle upside down on a bench. It’s important that it can not move. Now grab the Magazine Box with your hand and pull UP. Then tap the back side ​of the mag box with a rubber mallet. Keep increasing mallet wraps until it gives. It will finally pop right out. Once you have a “feel” for it, you can pop in hem out with one good SMACK with a mallet.


If you are nervous about installing pillars, just bed the Action. It’s still good to have the bedding. So think of it as it must have the pillars or nothing. You can do the bedding now, see how it performs. The pillars can always be added at a later date. You know?

[Rivethead]

So if I am able to get the box out... how do I get it back in without messing up something?
This one doesn't seem to want to flex like others I have read about... alternatively any tips or known procedure for bedding with the box left on?

I ordered a set of the Desh pillars so we'll see whey it looks like when they get here.
I think I may go ahead and load up some test loads before bedding.
Once I get the receiver prepped, the only time waster will be waiting for the alumahyde to cure.
Hope the fall weather holds till then.

Also Boyds answered my finish question... they said:

"If you did not order a high gloss finish and it is the standard finish, then any clear satin lacquer spray will match on the laminate."

[Dave Hoback]

Veeeeery carefully.. LOL!

Actually, if you worried, just leave. It. It’s perfectly fine to bed the Action with the Mag Box attached. I would use wax & release agent on it, but it won’t interfere with the bedding.

[Robinhood]

In the past few years I have done 3 Boyd's stocks and a Richards Microfit stocks for Savage. One was a Boyd's Spike Camp for a Blind mag Model 10. The second stock was a Richards Field Trekker for a DBM Model 11.. 3 and 4 were Boyd's At-One for the Model 11.

The Richards was completed and had it outside to take some finished pictures. I had the rifle leaning against a deck rail to set up bags and as I turned to grab the rifle a heavy wind gust picked up and blew the gun. It fell between the rails 4' onto a concrete pad. The stock split between the bolt notch and between the Trigger and mag well cutouts. That stock also had pillars installed. The rear pillar was broken out. After that I replaced with the At-One.

I have gone thru 2 At-One stocks for this Model 11. The first one I pillared and bedded. It shot very well for about a month then became erratic. Pulled the barrel and action to find the stock de-laminated between the mag well and trigger cut-out, yes on both sides of the pillar. Boyd's replaced the stock. The second one I only added a pillar to the front action screw. So I have had bad experience with Two Savage Stocks that have the DBM and trying to Pillar them. My opinion for what it is worth is there is not enough material between the mag well, action screw and the trigger cut-out to add a Pillar w/o weakening the stock.

When I started this venture I was getting help from a member on another form that had been a Stock maker and gunsmith for almost 50 years and he tried to warm me of this. He also stated that he did not pillar any stock that was less than a Magnum Caliber or being and old Mauser Action. The second Boyd's stock is now just over two years old and still tight. So this is something you might take into consideration.

98539854

This happened to me once when I first tried my hand at bedding. I used a compound that didn't flow and I used to much. The result was the stock expanded rather than the compound flowing out from under the action. Over time and under fire it gave up. Now i take a few reference dimensions and use less medium so the bedding material doesn't act like a wedge.

[KMW1954]

What epoxy did you use? I’ve never seen any of the epoxies I use split like that. And yes, while any 2-part will work, they do have different types & strengths. Also mixing it properly & thoroughly is crucial.

I’m sorry but your pictures are telling me a completely different story than simply a problem with Boyd’s stocks. And I’m no fan of wood stocks either. Any of them!

I'm guessing you missed the second paragraph where I mentioned it was accidentally dropped. That was the Walnut Richards also and not the Boyd's. Thought I had a picture of the delam on the Boyd's but I cannot find it. I had to cut the stock in half and email it to Boyd's before they would replace it.

[Rivethead]

Like I may have mentioned, my initial question led to another and another... This has become a project.
The bedding pillars I ordered were the wrong ones, so I am waiting for their replacements. I sprayed the barrel with Alumahyde (that went well) and now I'm waiting for it to air cure...
I've taped & waxed the receiver, but now see that there is a 1/32" sliver of wood showing between the receiver and back of the recoil lug... will that "compress upon firing or cause pressure & distortion? How to I relieve that... dremel out & build-back flush w/epoxy or...

Now I'm thinking about what to do about that sliver sticking out, how to install the pillars perpendicular, what to do about the front action screw escutcheon, and the order of steps to bed it...

So, I'm wondering if I should start a new thread where I can ask all my silly questions or just keep drifting this one in various directions (bedding related)...

[KMW1954]

Starting a new thread specific to the bedding might keep it more organized.
Not understanding the 1/32 sliver of wood. Can you try to post a picture? Or message me and I'll send an email address you can send a picture to.

[tomme boy]

Epoxy does go bad. You will know when you come back the next day and it is still soft. I have had to wait for a week one time with some RAKA. I stopped using theirs after the second time it happened. I was making wood boats for about 10 years before I got bored with it. I went with USComposites and never had any issues after that. I still have some that is about 7yo right now. I just used it and milled fiberglass filler to bed a Boyds Tactical stock from when they first made them. I have 3 different hardeners to adjust the speed of hardening. I will tell everyone this, Never use the fast quick cures as they are not strong at all. Use the slowest you can get away with.

[Rivethead]

Below is a pic with the receiver screwed in place.
The recoil shoulder "ledge" is the lighter line in front of the receiver (with the green arrow pointing toward it).
It's in a hard place to measure, but it seems to stick out about 0.02".

I am wondering how this would affect the recoil lug to receiver fit and if it would induce an angle or adverse pressure/recoil when everything is tightened down...

Also, if I need to make it flush, I need to figure a way to shave it off without making a mess of the inletting and possibly after relieving it, to build it back up to bear straight, smooth & flush with the lug (using a little epoxy). IF it isn't a concern, I'll leave it as is...

9940

[Dave Hoback]

Nope! Don’t touch it. For starters, I think it’s more of a bevel you’re seeing there. Certainly looks like one in the photo. Second thing, even if the wood is sticking past a few Thous., the Barreled Action w/recoil Lug will seat & compress the wood where it needs to be when the Action screws are in & torqued down.

[Rivethead]

Thanks Dave, that's the info I needed to know.
The action screws were snug (not gut-n-tight).
Now that you mention it, it does look beveled in the pic... but it doesn't in person - 90* as far as I can tell (with and w/o the action in place), but I did wonder if it would compress or 'wear in' upon use.
I was worried there would be binding or uneven gap on the mating surfaces when assembled.

[Dave Hoback]

If it indeed is past the Action face too much, the Action Screws will be very difficult or unable to be screws in. If that happens, & the screws won’t screw in, then it may need modified. But again, if only a slight amount, the screws will seat & thread normally & the wood will compress.


A good note to live by, never pre-modify parts. Never modify anything based on assumptions. Only modify a part after you know it’s required. And even then, only perform a modification you are familiar with. Don’t ever alter/modify/machine anything because you think it should be done. Just some advice from a pretty OK fabricator.

[Rivethead]

Thanks for that good advice.
It will be easy enough to find out since I can screw the barrel+lug on and test fit to see if the screws will go in... if so, no worries...

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Yep, it all went together fine... I couldn't see that area (my x-ray vision is on the blink) but I had no trouble snugging the screws down, and I could feel the action move into position.
Thanks again... now I will start another thread on installing the Pillars...