First time Savage Build, questions and progress

[Robinhood]

The 6.8 Extractor is somewhat of an enhanced version. The other 2 are simply different lengths, but all extractors work in all Bolt Heads.

Fit and work are not the same.

[Rocketvapor]

I don't have a problem with opinions.
This is my first bolt gun build and respect the knowledge on this sight with respect to Savage stuff.
Many thanks for all the help.

Everybody seemed to be out of the extractor unless you bought a $25 "Kit".
I jumped on Midway when they came in. Birthday discount was a whole buck on these.
Would it be a good idea to put the same thing in both bolts.
Fit AND work would be nice :)

[Dave Hoback]

I wouldn’t worry about changing anything unless you have a problem.

You may come to find those $25-$30 extractor kits are worth gold. Every Savage I ever get will use either a Kinney’s or Lumley bolt head parts kit. They come with heavier springs & the larger diameter extractor bearing ball.

[Rocketvapor]

Getting closer.
Got some poly on the SSS stock.
https://i.ibb.co/LRrKd16/P1100111-B.jpg (https://ibb.co/jfztkDG)

[Rocketvapor]

Bout ready to load up some ammo and get her to the range.
10202
Need to cut foam.

[Dave Hoback]

Lookin’ good my friend. :thumb:

[Rocketvapor]

Loading up some test ammo for Flo's first test of her Christmas present, sometime next week.
Headspace is set to about the same as her AR. I usually load with 0.002" to 0.003" less (minimal gas).
Going for 0.001" to 0.002" for the Savage. Have fit checked 50 sized/once fired cases (22 Nosgar made from 6mm Hagar).
Starting load will be the same as her AR using Sorted CCI450, SB6.5, 85.5.
Will need to get the scope set up for her, prone, rest and bag. Using 1.16" medium, 34mm rings, and a XTR2 8-40X50.
Will take the higher one piece mount along with us just in case.
Torqued every thing down:
Front action screw 45 inlbs, rear 35 inlbs, 8x40 rail to action 30 inlbs, ring to rail 35 inlb, rings to scope 17.575 inch pounds :).
10224
Added some thin foam under the velvet to support the barrel better and some in the lid over the bolts.
Thinking about cutting in a slot for a cleaning rod.

[charlie b]

I always add a slot for a cleaning rod. Mainly cause the first time I don't bring it I need one :)

Nice looking rig. Good luck with shooting.

[Rocketvapor]

Thanks.
Gonna cut in the cleaning rod. Already had a range trip without one.
I'm also gonna hide a 5mm (36" long) Plastic coated Stainless Steel Rod under the foam.

[charlie b]

It's kinda like driving off road and not having a big hammer :)

[Rocketvapor]

Got sidetracked in another thread on firing pins.

So, I've decided that the common pin protrusion of 0.060" is WAY to much.
I'll adjusted the old style pins to around 0.045".
Dave thinks 0.035" would be fine, but for the first time out I'll go with this.
Will take one old style and one new style when we go to the range.

Now my issue (ONLY WITH THE NEWSTYLE).
I bought a receiver with bolt from NorthLand (black bolt body) and 243 bolt head.
Bought a 6.8 bolt head to convert it to 22 Nosgar.
Bought a new stainless bolt in 223 from Midway, to shoot 22 Nosler. It had an old style pin.
Bought a stainless bolt in 223 from Ebay, with new style pin.
Bought Bolt body and small parts including another new style pin, all three spring pieces from Gun Shack #108849.

Here are the springs from the 2 new style bolts and the spring from Gun Shack that does not seem right.
What do I have? A new spring, an old compressed spring and a wrong spring?
I'll contact Gun Shack and see what they say.
10265
Looks like I got the springs mixed up.
Pressing on the bathroom scale with the cocking indicator touching my thumb in the BAS hole I get 23.5 lbs on the short spring, 32 pounds on the midlength spring, and forget it with the big spring.
10266

[Dave Hoback]

Rocket, I don’t think it will work fine. I’m telling you, .035” is not only fine, it’s considered optimum. The anvil in the primer stops the firing pin. No Savage firing pin will ever go more than .025” into the primer. Any more than .035” is only limiting FP travel aka, Firing Pin Fall.

As for the springs, use the longest spring. This has been the ongoing issue with the new style FP assembly. In your photo, your old spring is shorter because it has collapsed and taken a set at that shorter length. This is the norm with cheap, low quality springs. Over time, the same thing will happen to the New, Longer spring as well. But for a time you should get some reliability from it. All this is why I’m still searching for a good spring replacement made from Chrome-Silicon, which does not take a set & holds more stored energy with lighter wire than standard spring wire. I’m researching some companies to perhaps have them made.

[Robinhood]

With the new firing pins, there is no reason to adjust protrusion You are not changing spring compression or travel....unless you remove material from the firing pin tip. Why bother. If you have consistent ignition, run with it.

[Rocketvapor]

Thanks for the replies.
Rifle does not have a single shot through it yet.
I took two of the New pins down to 0.044"-0.045" from 0.060" that we will try Thursday.
Set up for 223 bolts (22 Nosler)
Set an old style to 0.045" set up for 6.8 bolt (22 Nosgar).

Once we have some rounds down the pipe we will likely go on down closer to 0.035" on both types.
0.060" protrusion seems to be the scapegoat when primer problems are reported by shooters.
There was a thread that went on and on that claimed protrusion (and spring force/travel) caused everything.
Dave, I agree with the 0.035" being optimum, but for the first outing I'll split the difference just to see IF we have any problems.
Just don't want to fire this thing with a 0.060" pin. Why risk problems.


Now, the springs :)
I managed to get the BIG spring seated with the new style pin. Man that was tough.
Since I'm taking two of these I'll use the two largest springs for now.
And tools and spare parts :)

I have another (dumb?) question though.
When you guys talk about spring force, like 23 lbs or 32 lbs springs;
IS THAT COCKED OR DECOCKED FORCE?

For someone with a new style what is the length of your good spring?
Pictures always seem to show the spring seated in the BAS so hard to tell.

This range trip will only be with the wife's rifle.

[Dave Hoback]

The spring force is just a number. A standard measurement for compression springs is Inch Pounds. The stock savage spring (old style) is 28lbs. Wolff makes a Xtra power spring which is 32lbs., and among the dumbest thing ideas out there. The old style FP assemblies were already severely oversprung at 28. So 32lbs is just ludicrous! However, that rating is just potential energy. There are so many aspects that go into the actual energy transmitted to the Primer. Which is why I used that rather rudimentary statement in an earlier reply. We can talk about Inch-Pounds, Inch-ounces, mathematical equations for force & whatnot all we want. But in the end, who cares? I make it real simple: I will only use the old style adjustable FP assembly and want the spring as light as possible while maintaining 100% reliability.

[Rocketvapor]

With respect to the NEW STYLE, which granted is not as good as the OLD STYLE, What is the length of a good spring supposedly from Savage thru Gun Shack.
Say I have a box of Savage Springs, reach in a pick one. Based on free length, a calibrated hand swish, try it and see?


You stated 28 lbs is oversprung. Is that 28 pounds of static force with the adjusted pin held in your hand at full decock, in the bolt decocked, Cocked and ready to go fly?

[Dave Hoback]

With respect to the NEW STYLE, which granted is not as good as the OLD STYLE, What is the length of a good spring supposedly from Savage thru Gun Shack.
Say I have a box of Savage Springs, reach in a pick one. Based on free length, a calibrated hand swish, try it and see?


You stated 28 lbs is oversprung. Is that 28 pounds of static force with the adjusted pin held in your hand at full decock, in the bolt decocked, Cocked and ready to go fly?

The 28lb rating is the normal compression spring rating, meaning yes at full length it takes 28lbs to collapse the spring 1”. Honestly, it doesn’t matter what rating of numbers one uses. The goal is having 100% primer ignition.

[Rocketvapor]

NEW STYLE PIN

So, when I compress these springs about 0.3 inches I get 23, 32, 40+.
Ain't gonna get to 1" compression :(

Here's the "INPUT DATA" for the small, weak, worn out spring (see springs in post #71)
Force required to lift off cocking notch 24.5 pounds.
Force require to lift off Bolt Head @ full fall, 10.5 lbs.
Using this and a 200 pound industrial scale.
10277

Pin measurements (from cocking indicator)
Cocking notch, 0.005" to indicator,
Cocked and on sear 0.028",
Fired 0.288".
Protrusion is 0.044-0.045"

I think there was a formula posted in one of these threads.
Sounds like I will lose about 0.020" in pin fall from 0.045" protrusion, and about 4 pounds due to sear/cocking pin friction/drag.

So far, this rifle has had ZERO Misfires :)

[Rocketvapor]

Made our first range trip with the new Savage.
Sighted in thru barrel and scope @ 50, 4 shots, adjusted scope, and mount for cheek position and height.
Gonna need the next lower set of rings (got mid) or a cheek rest.
10292
Hate to do anything permanent ( for now) to the stock.
She used a folded up gater.
Only went to 100 yards. Shot 22 Nosgar and 22 Nosler which did better, maybe ammo, or just getting a few rounds down the pipe.
Load guess of 31.8 and 32.0 grs of SB6.5 with 85.5s. Lighter load was under 3000fps, heavier load a little over 3000.

10293
1 2992fps SD 12.1
2 3016fps SD 23.3
3 3015fps SD 13.8
4 2980fps SD 5.7

[charlie b]

Nice. Looks like you found a good node.