Build and the small 6's w/ a DBM ?

[Shooter0302]

With the summer heat {95*+-} I spend all of the day pondering a new build on a short action and a small 6MM. The plan is to use a Magpul Hunter stock with the DBM bottom metal. The more I read the more confused I get :confused: on if a 6BR, or a BR based case will function with a standard 308 Mag. I know there are special Mags. that are built for this , but with 3 bolt guns that all take the same Mag. I was hoping for the simplicity of not needed a special Mag.
Thank you

[Dave Hoback]

You can get it to work with a few tricks. The main problem is the case is so short, the Ejector runs out of room the mag you want is the style that uses a block. You can (and people have), modified stock SA mags by creating a block for the back of the magazine & modifying the Follower. MDT makes this style magazine. https://eabco.com/mdt-104174-magazine-fits-short-action-aics-compatible-6-br-6-dasher-etc-12-round/

As for the Ejector, by removing a little from the back stop of it, it should give just enough extra to eject properly. Like the picture below. Also, make certain you replace the factory .125” Ejector bearing ball with the larger .140” size. These mods performed and many have successfully run the BR case in the Savage without issue.

https://i.ibb.co/25YsJJR/EB0-BEB56-F7-E7-42-BF-B0-D7-5-B26-C4-FB1-A32.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[Shooter0302]

Thanks Dave ,
Went back and found that most all that were shooting small 6"s were either using 700 or 700 clone actions, in my old age might have to consider the path of least resistance and go with the "Gay Tiger" case.

" Ain't it always something"

[Dave Hoback]

Well, there are several other cartridges just as capable (or more), and do not present any feeding/extraction issues. The 6mmGT, 6x47 Lapua, 6mm CM, 6mmXC. But everyone just loves the BR. Personally, I’m more fond of my rifle, than the cartridge it fires. I can be accurate with one of any number of cartridges. However, I’m honest to myself in knowing that any of these cartridges can be much more accurate than I. And switching from one to another will not make me more accurate. Those of course, are simply my thoughts.

[pdog06]

The 6br usually doesn’t function consistently out of a factory savage mag without some manipulation.
But it should feed fine out of the Magpul mag included with the Magpul Hunter stock. I actually have one and can try running some rounds Thru it if you like? I would just have to swap barreled actions real quick. But hey I just had shoulder surgery and am out of work for a few weeks and bored so it’s no big deal.

[Dave Hoback]

The 6br usually doesn’t function consistently out of a factory savage mag without some manipulation.
But it should feed fine out of the Magpul mag included with the Magpul Hunter stock. I actually have one and can try running some rounds Thru it if you like? I would just have to swap barreled actions real quick. But hey I just had shoulder surgery and am out of work for a few weeks and bored so it’s no big deal.

The Magazine is only one part of the equation. A correct magazine will typically fix feeding, but extraction problems exist because of how short the case is, being used with the Savage factory Bolt design. The Ejector runs out of length which doesn’t keep adequate pressure against the side. This allows the case to fall free from the Extractor claw & not Eject from Action. Mods include filing the inside edge of the ejector, as outlined, allowing it to extend further, as well as clipping coils from the Ejector spring to lower spring force. Also using a larger Extractor bearing ball which is something everyone should do anyway.

[charlie b]

I agree that if you want flawless feeding and ejection you might want to consider a longer cartridge. Look around at what others have done.

At one time there was a specific mod for M700 actions/mags to feed the short rounds. Next time I am at the range I'll see if it feeds from my 12BVSS magazine that was made for the .308. I have never really used the magazine so the springs are fairly 'fresh'. Can't evaluate the ejection since I don't have the ejectors anymore. :)

[pdog06]

The Magazine is only one part of the equation. A correct magazine will typically fix feeding, but extraction problems exist because of how short the case is, being used with the Savage factory Bolt design. The Ejector runs out of length which doesn’t keep adequate pressure against the side. This allows the case to fall free from the Extractor claw & not Eject from Action. Mods include filing the inside edge of the ejector, as outlined, allowing it to extend further, as well as clipping coils from the Ejector spring to lower spring force. Also using a larger Extractor bearing ball which is something everyone should do anyway.

I know that Dave. The extraction is ALSO one part of the equation but I didn’t put you in blast. (1) I read your earlier post like everyone else, and (2) I’ve built many 6br savages for myself and friends, and currently have 2 myself. I am reminded of the extraction issue with every round down range, but I use them single shot so it actually works better for me that way so I don’t care.
You covered the extraction issue in depth and I agree with it 100%. Hence why I didn’t bring it up in my post. I even sent a pm to the op and added in it that you were spot on with that info so I didn’t mention it.
But he mentioned using a Magpul hunter stock and asked about feeding from the Magpul mags, so I geared my post toward that since I have that exact setup, And offered to test mine for him to verify before he made the purchase.
We are all just trying to help, but it doesnt do any good if I just follow you up and say the same thing as you and nothing else.

[Whynot]

I had a 6BR on a 700 (but alas my need to always try different things led to it going down the road...) In the 700 if fed perfect in the 308/7.62 P-mags without any blocks or modifications- but I was shooting the 107smk loaded long so the bullet was starting in the chamber before the mag released it. I tried some 75 or 80 grain shorter bullets and with them feeding was decent.... but occasional problems and jams would happen.

I am a big fan of the 6 BR-- but would not build one on a savage unless it was a single shot.... something just doesn't mesh... but oddly enough that 700 with the stock extractor/ejector worked perfect. The 700 clones with mechanical ejectors seem to work great for it also.

[jimreed1948]

I recently got my model 10 6BR up and running and I'm using a MK Machine sled for single shot shooting and a MDT magazine for multiple rounds when needed.

You didn't mention if you were hunting or shooting paper, steel, etc.. I prefer single shot most of the time even with prairie dog hunting. If hunting coyotes I use the magazine feed.

[KMW1954]

After following this thread it has raised thoughts. Question is why the difficulty with the 6BR when Savage has now been offering a 6ARC loading in both a 110 Model and the Axis, both with DBM setups. The 6 ARC is even shorter than the 6BR! With the little I know about Savage I could not possibly believe they would institute a whole separate bolt or extractor for these 2 rifles just for the 6ARC.

I bring this up because I am to the point that before winter I hope to convert a Model 11 from 223 to 6ARC.

[Dave Hoback]

After following this thread it has raised thoughts. Question is why the difficulty with the 6BR when Savage has now been offering a 6ARC loading in both a 110 Model and the Axis, both with DBM setups. The 6 ARC is even shorter than the 6BR! With the little I know about Savage I could not possibly believe they would institute a whole separate bolt or extractor for these 2 rifles just for the 6ARC.

I bring this up because I am to the point that before winter I hope to convert a Model 11 from 223 to 6ARC.

Savage has the same problem with 6mmARC. Thing is, not every rifle suffers the problem. Some work just fine. Some people likely don’t speak about of it. And regardless of it all; “frankly my dear, Savage doesn’t give a darn!” Remember, owners have been complaining for decades about the heavy bolt lift. And yet, Savage has never addressed the issue. So, should give insight on that.

[KMW1954]

Savage has the same problem with 6mmARC. Thing is, not every rifle suffers the problem. Some work just fine. .

Thanks for this info, now I have to start a new research before I go forward.

[pdm25150]

Can't help on reliable magazines, but I have a 6BR on a 110 long action I use for benchrest. It is single shot no mag with a sled / ramp glued in. I can tell you to get the Improved extractor kit from Fred at sharp shooter's supply. Mine drove me nuts dropping cases.

I tried changing the ball modifying extractor and ejector even springs. I asked Fred and he told me about the kit. Ordered installed and haven't had a issue since. Built on a long action for 2 reasons I had one that had been timed and tried with a nice trigger and a Shehane tracker stock. Barrel is by Hart, real nice consistent shooter.

I use it short range bench rest score shooting. This was my starter rifle however my new .30 BR is almost finished. It will be back to 600 yard for the 6 br soon.

[Dave Hoback]

Can't help on reliable magazines, but I have a 6BR on a 110 long action I use for benchrest. It is single shot no mag with a sled / ramp glued in. I can tell you to get the Improved extractor kit from Fred at sharp shooter's supply. Mine drove me nuts dropping cases.

I tried changing the ball modifying extractor and ejector even springs. I asked Fred and he told me about the kit. Ordered installed and haven't had a issue since. Built on a long action for 2 reasons I had one that had been timed and tried with a nice trigger and a Shehane tracker stock. Barrel is by Hart, real nice consistent shooter.

I use it short range bench rest score shooting. This was my starter rifle however my new .30 BR is almost finished. It will be back to 600 yard for the 6 br soon.

Good post. I remembered one of your older posts that described what I was saying perfectly. Here: https://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?68046-6BR-Dasher-extraction-ejection&p=482946#post482946 You explained it as the Ejector “slamming” the case into the side of the Action, but actually it’s like I explained. Too short case….Too short Ejector travel. In your situation, the ejector/extractor kit was enough to mitigate the problem. (At least to a large degree.) However, as was mentioned in that thread & here, not all Ejectors, Extractors, Actions are created equal. I had forgotten the one other trick specified in that thread as well. The Extractor Ball divot can be moved just a few thous. This gives the Extractor a different fulcrum & can by way give different leverage. However, these modifications should not be attempted without a 100% understanding of the mechanics of the problem.

[charlie b]

Well, just for grins I tried out the mag with 6BR this morning. Model 12BVSS, originally .308Win. It has a blind mag. Popped the 6BR round in there, made sure it was all the way against the back of the magazine and pushed the bolt forward. Chambered very cleanly. The cartridges were loaded with 103gn VTac bullets that are a bit on the long side.

I did forget to try loading the mag with 4 rounds. If I remember next time I'll try it too.

As I stated above, I can't comment on ejection since I don't have an ejector on my rifles. The cases are extracted easily and they are held onto the face of the bolt until I pluck them out. FWIW, this rifle did not eject .308 brass reliably so I doubt that it would work very well with the shorter 6BR. I never bothered trying any of the fixes since I am a single shot type person.

[Dave Hoback]

Hehe.. “Single Shot kinda guy”? One Shot One Kill, eh Charlie? :tea:

[charlie b]

LOL yep.

Yesterday was one of those days. Set up at the range waiting for it to be light enough to shoot. Got the 6BR there. Calm wind. First shot at 200 yd to check zero. Couldn't see the hole. Cussed a bit. Looked through the spotting scope and the bullet had hit dead center on the target. The 'X' was 'hiding' the bullet hole.

I kinda cussed again. Cause now every other shot had to be perfect....and they weren't :)

[Dave Hoback]

LOL yep.

Yesterday was one of those days. Set up at the range waiting for it to be light enough to shoot. Got the 6BR there. Calm wind. First shot at 200 yd to check zero. Couldn't see the hole. Cussed a bit. Looked through the spotting scope and the bullet had hit dead center on the target. The 'X' was 'hiding' the bullet hole.

I kinda cussed again. Cause now every other shot had to be perfect....and they weren't :)


Ahhh.. making me envious! I miss it. Can’t get out in the Eastern Pa. heat/humidity. Every summer for the last 9 years, I’ve been a slave to summer heat! Accident resided my brain so it won’t regulate my temp. I overheat bad! Needless to say, I’m looking forward to Fall & getting out to my range.

[charlie b]

Shot the 6BR again this morning.

Loaded 4 in the mag and feeding was flawless. So, now you are down to ejection. I'd suggest following what others have said about the extractor and ejector and not worry about the magazine.