Oldie but goodie? Update to old Savage model 116 thread from 7 months ago.

[Trav]

Hello all! First off I'd like to apologize to Dave for not replying to your final posts on the thread I started in December 2022. I was using my phone to view and reply on the forum and didn't realize that eventually there will be a "next page". I thought I was beginning to repeat myself, or got annoying so I wasn't getting any more responses. All I needed to do was go to page 2 :crazy:. Thank you Dave and all for your insight. It helped me tremendously in my decision making while building this rifle. So I'd like to update on this build as its taken me 7 months to finally get to it, life gets in the way.

So I installed a well known quality scope with a well know 20 moa pic rail and a well known set of rings :p. Just a reminder, this is a Savage flat back model 116 chambered in 7 rem mag. Using some older posts on the forum I was able to deduce the rifle was manufactured in 1997. I purchased used and cheap, all stock with the silver Bushnell scope (now a paper weight), installed my goodies and finally went to the range. I bore sighted the rifle and started shooting using some old winchester super x 175 grain bullets that came with the gun. I know the rounds are old because the boxes have price stickers on them of $14.99. I was very quickly able to get the scope on paper at 100 yards and my best 3 shot group was about 1.25 moa using the old ammo. I was shooting off a stock mounted bipod and a squeeze bag at the rear.

I switched to the Hornady ELD-X ammo that I wanted to hunt with and began to try and zero the rifle with that ammo. I allowed the gun to cool after every 3 round group. The best group I could manage was about 2.5 moa, which isn't terrible but was hoping for better. I'm confident I'm not the problem as the older ammo had better groupings and I have shot sub-moa groups with sub-moa rifles in the past. So before I try a different ammo (I know I really need to reload my own for best results, and in time I plan to) I decided to dig into the gun a bit and see if I can find any issue.

The gun still has the factory milk jug stock. I know I know, that's likely the issue. I removed the stock and found along the left side of the barrel the stock has been contacting the barrel almost the full length of the stock. No doubt this is an issue. Now I've done some research and found some controversy here. This gun is light weight with a small sporter barrel (I don't know why I'm telling you this as if you don't already know). Some people say it's a bad idea to have a free-floating sporter barrel and to have a contact point at the end of the stock. This makes some sense to me, but also I think just like trying different ammo, you have to determine what works for you and your rifles harmonics.

Now obviously there is an issue with only left side stock to barrel contact, and I plan to fix. It appears to me this rifle is supposed to be free floated from factory, if not then my stock really has issues. I want to fix this stock and attempt to get closer to a 1 moa or better group, I will try different ammo if the stock contact doesn't fix the issue. Is there anything else you wonderful folks recommend I look at or try? I know I should ditch the stock but that's not in my budget right now. If I'm going to replace stock, I want to go with high dollar good quality.

[BobT]

I would definitely eliminate the stock contact first. The fact that your rifle doesn't like the Hornady ammo is not unusual as most guns have a distinct ammo preference. For many years now, if I just wanted to see if a gun had potential I would try Federal blue box ammo. Most of the time if a rifle was going to shoot at all it would at least keep the Federals in a decent group. I've had a couple of 7mm Magnums over the years that were pretty picky about their loading but once I found the right combination they were pretty well all good shooters. I have a new one now that I'm hoping will be the best yet.

[Dave Hoback]

Yes, shooting a specific ammunition and only getting 2.5moa does not signify a problem on it’s own. In fact, that the rifle shot a 1.25moa group with the older ammunition shows it really doesn’t have an issue. While making certain the barrel is free-floated is a good measure it’s unlikely to influence the outcome in this particular case. As you mentioned, reloading is the key.

[Trav]

I would definitely eliminate the stock contact first. The fact that your rifle doesn't like the Hornady ammo is not unusual as most guns have a distinct ammo preference. For many years now, if I just wanted to see if a gun had potential I would try Federal blue box ammo. Most of the time if a rifle was going to shoot at all it would at least keep the Federals in a decent group. I've had a couple of 7mm Magnums over the years that were pretty picky about their loading but once I found the right combination they were pretty well all good shooters. I have a new one now that I'm hoping will be the best yet.

I was thinking of trying some federal rounds since they have a lot of different options in bullets (nosler, Barnes, berger, etc.) if the Hornady still doesn’t work out after fixing the barrel contact. What’s your new rifle?

[Trav]

Yes, shooting a specific ammunition and only getting 2.5moa does not signify a problem on its own. In fact, that the rifle shot a 1.25moa group with the older ammunition shows it really doesn’t have an issue. While making certain the barrel is free-floated is a good measure it’s unlikely to influence the outcome in this particular case. As you mentioned, reloading is the key.

Yeah I know and a few of you told me that when I started here. It was something I was hoping to avoid for a while at least but may have to happen sooner than later. I love this rifle, just feels good. And lite. First 7 mag I’ve ever fired and recoil wasn’t terrible at all, with limbsaver pad of course. Dave I know you had mentioned in my previous thread about a trigger job. It appears this is a 3 screw trigger system. It looks as though a pull weight adjustment would be a simple twist of the screw under the spring wire. I haven’t done any research on that and I assume there’s a bit more to it. The trigger is currently a pretty hard pull, though it wasn’t me complaining about it at the range, it was other friends I was with. The trigger surprised me every time, I feel like that’s a good thing, and I don’t feel it made me pull in any direction as I’m not pulling, I’m squeezing. Do you think I should mess with it or leave it alone?

y

[Dave Hoback]

Wall that’s up to you of course. Obviously my opinion is to tune/adjust triggers. Adjusting is not difficult if you have a basic guide.

And it just so happens, we have that. https://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?130-Factory-3-Screw-Trigger-Adjustment-Procedures

Now modifying the trigger is a whole other part to this. If you’d like, I’d be happy to send you one of my replacement bar springs.

[charlie b]

If you ask Savage this is what they recommend (from Savage FAQ):



Caliber
Bullet Weight
(Grains)


12 Gauge (Model 212)
Remington Accu-tip 385 grain 3"
Federal Premium 1 Oz. Expander tip 3''



12 Gauge (Model 210)
Winchester 385 grain Partition Gold 3”


20 Gauge (Model 220)
Remington 3” 365 grain AccuTip


204 Ruger
Hornady 40 grain V Max


220 Swift
Federal Premium 52 grain Sierra Match King BTHP


22-250 Remington – 1 in 12” twist
Federal V Shock 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


22-250 Remington – 1 in 9” twist
Federal 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


223 Remington – 1 in 7” twist
69 grain and above


223 Remington – 1 in 9” twist
Federal 69 grain Sierra Match King BTHP


243 Winchester
Federal 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


25-06 Remington
Federal 100 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


270 Winchester
Federal 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


270 Winchester Short Magnum
Winchester 130 grain Ballistic Silver Tip


300 Winchester Magnum
Winchester 180 grain Ballistic Silver Tip


300 Winchester Short Magnum
Winchester 150 grain Ballistic Silver Tip


30-06 Springfield
Federal 168 grain Sierra Match King BTHP


308 Winchester
Federal 168 grain Sierra Match King BTHP


Palma 308
155 grain ONLY (Palma chamber)


325 Winchester Short Magnum
Winchester 180 grain Silver Ballistic Tip


338 Winchester Magnum
Nosler 210 grain Partition


5X35 SMc
32 grain Sierra


6mm BR Norma – 1 in 8” twist
90 grain to 107 grain


6mm BR Norma – 1 in 12” twist
58 grain to 85 grain


6.5 X 284 Norma
Black Hills 142 grain Boat Tail Hollow Point


7mm Remington Magnum
Federal 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


7mm Winchester Short Magnum
Winchester 140 grain Ballistic Silver Tip


7mm-08 Remington
Winchester 140 grain Ballistic Silver Tip

[Trav]

Wall that’s up to you of course. Obviously my opinion is to tune/adjust triggers. Adjusting is not difficult if you have a basic guide.

And it just so happens, we have that. https://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?130-Factory-3-Screw-Trigger-Adjustment-Procedures

Now modifying the trigger is a whole other part to this. If you’d like, I’d be happy to send you one of my replacement bar springs.

Replacement bar spring will allow for a lighter pull weight adjustment? I’m an automotive technician, may be able to tinker enough successfully while keeping myself out of trouble…

[Trav]

If you ask Savage this is what they recommend (from Savage FAQ):



Caliber
Bullet Weight
(Grains)


12 Gauge (Model 212)
Remington Accu-tip 385 grain 3"
Federal Premium 1 Oz. Expander tip 3''


12 Gauge (Model 210)
Winchester 385 grain Partition Gold 3”


20 Gauge (Model 220)
Remington 3” 365 grain AccuTip


204 Ruger
Hornady 40 grain V Max


220 Swift
Federal Premium 52 grain Sierra Match King BTHP


22-250 Remington – 1 in 12” twist
Federal V Shock 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


22-250 Remington – 1 in 9” twist
Federal 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


223 Remington – 1 in 7” twist
69 grain and above


223 Remington – 1 in 9” twist
Federal 69 grain Sierra Match King BTHP


243 Winchester
Federal 70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


25-06 Remington
Federal 100 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


270 Winchester
Federal 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


270 Winchester Short Magnum
Winchester 130 grain Ballistic Silver Tip


300 Winchester Magnum
Winchester 180 grain Ballistic Silver Tip


300 Winchester Short Magnum
Winchester 150 grain Ballistic Silver Tip


30-06 Springfield
Federal 168 grain Sierra Match King BTHP


308 Winchester
Federal 168 grain Sierra Match King BTHP


Palma 308
155 grain ONLY (Palma chamber)


325 Winchester Short Magnum
Winchester 180 grain Silver Ballistic Tip


338 Winchester Magnum
Nosler 210 grain Partition


5X35 SMc
32 grain Sierra


6mm BR Norma – 1 in 8” twist
90 grain to 107 grain


6mm BR Norma – 1 in 12” twist
58 grain to 85 grain


6.5 X 284 Norma
Black Hills 142 grain Boat Tail Hollow Point


7mm Remington Magnum
Federal 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip


7mm Winchester Short Magnum
Winchester 140 grain Ballistic Silver Tip


7mm-08 Remington
Winchester 140 grain Ballistic Silver Tip




Thank you charlie b. Looked at the federal website, can’t seem to find a 150 grain nosler ballistic tip. I did however discover federal is now loading Hornady eld-x bullets. I wonder just how different they will be from the Hornady loaded rounds as bullet weight is the same and so is tested muzzle velocity. Might be curious enough to try and find out myself. Also the federal terminal assent 155 grain looks interesting.

[BobT]

What’s your new rifle?

My new one is the 110 Hunter, I topped it with a Vortex Viper PST II 5-25 on an EGW 20 MOA rail. As I near retirement I'm trying to consolidate my collection and I figured if I had a long action and a short action with 2 bolts for each I could cover a lot of territory.
I'm sure you'll be able to find an acceptable factory load. I would certainly encourage handloading to get the most from your rifle. If you know an EXPERIENCED handloader and can get them to show you the ropes then you will be ahead of the game.

[Trav]

My new one is the 110 Hunter, I topped it with a Vortex Viper PST II 5-25 on an EGW 20 MOA rail. As I near retirement I'm trying to consolidate my collection and I figured if I had a long action and a short action with 2 bolts for each I could cover a lot of territory.
I'm sure you'll be able to find an acceptable factory load. I would certainly encourage handloading to get the most from your rifle. If you know an EXPERIENCED handloader and can get them to show you the ropes then you will be ahead of the game.

Very nice! I went with the older Viper PST gen 1 6-24x50, figured I’d keep things retro (and a bit cheaper). Also went with the 20moa EGW rail. Going to dip into some federal factory ammo, see what I can come up with for now. Save up some brass for future reloads.

[Dave Hoback]

Replacement bar spring will allow for a lighter pull weight adjustment? I’m an automotive technician, may be able to tinker enough successfully while keeping myself out of trouble…


Trav: I can’t remember if we had discussed it before, but that was my profession as well, until being disabled in an accident. For a lotta years I was a Tech. Started with Saturn back in the day when we still ran cars on the Dyno for Inspection, LOL! Years later I was with Volkswagen. Let me ask you this; are you a problem solver, or parts hanger? So, I was a cream ‘o da crop diagnostics technician. Besides replacing, rebuilding & such, one of the guys who could solve the intricate of head scratchers. Either way, if you can work on cars, you can figure this stuff out. ESPECIALLY if you’re mind is anything like mine… problem solving, modifying, fitting square pegs in round holes, what not. LOL!

Yes, the bar springs I make are a lighter gauge spring wire. I give them to members here no charge, as well as doing complete trigger jobs. If you want a spring just message me.

[Trav]

Trav: I can’t remember if we had discussed it before, but that was my profession as well, until being disabled in an accident. For a lotta years I was a Tech. Started with Saturn back in the day when we still ran cars on the Dyno for Inspection, LOL! Years later I was with Volkswagen. Let me ask you this; are you a problem solver, or parts hanger? So, I was a cream ‘o da crop diagnostics technician. Besides replacing, rebuilding & such, one of the guys who could solve the intricate of head scratchers. Either way, if you can work on cars, you can figure this stuff out. ESPECIALLY if you’re mind is anything like mine… problem solving, modifying, fitting square pegs in round holes, what not. LOL!

Yes, the bar springs I make are a lighter gauge spring wire. I give them to members here no charge, as well as doing complete trigger jobs. If you want a spring just message me.

I’m a do whatever is needed guy these days. I’m the shop foreman at an independent shop her in Las Cruces, NM. Shop is called Accu-Tech. Most of our work load is diesels but we cover pretty much everything aside from automatic transmissions. I’ve been in the field for 18 years now, started very young at Volkswagen dealer here. Had a short stint with Honda/Hyundai dealer, and also worked for International truck dealer for a few years before finally landing where I am now. My favorite stuff is the wonky electrical gremlins that scare everyone else away.

I’ll shoot you a message about the bar spring, really appreciate the offer.

[BobT]

Very nice! I went with the older Viper PST gen 1 6-24x50, figured I’d keep things retro (and a bit cheaper). Also went with the 20moa EGW rail. Going to dip into some federal factory ammo, see what I can come up with for now. Save up some brass for future reloads.

That sounds like a plan!

Thanks! I got a screaming deal on the Vortex, Eurooptic has a pretty good military discount on Vortex optics and then they added another 15% on top of the usual military discount so I ended up getting it for less than half MSRP.

[Dave Hoback]

Can’t beat that. :tea:

[Trav]

Just wanted to update in case anyone was curious. Ready now for my elk hunt. Free floating the barrel with factory stock resulted in pretty consistent 1 MOA at 100 yards with Hornady ELD-X factory ammo. Verified with 3 inch groups at 300, 4 inch at 400 etc. out to 600 yards. A good stock and this gun will hopefully be sub-MOA. Just wanted to take the time to thank everyone here for all your input. Confidence is very high and I’m extremely grateful to all of you! God bless!

[Dave Hoback]

Awesome news! Congrats on that.