Obvious benefit of doing a Ladder for hand loaders.

[NF1E]

In the process of working up a usable load for Sierra 135 gn fb varminters for one of my rifles.


Bula Defense Systems M14 type XM21 version 1 ser #3. Heavy Bula barrel with the rest of the parts from Bula except for Trigger which is Shootingsight EBR with lightened hammer. Chassis is JAE with 1 turn on the barrel tensioner. Scope is a Night Force ATACR 5-25 on TPS med rings.


Ammo is hand loaded using MEN berdan cases freshly annealed, TULA KV-7.62 N primers igniting Varget. Starting load on ladder is 45gn up to 47.5gn in 1/2 gn increments.


Target one is for sighters with 5 rnds of MEN surplus on the center to warm things up, then 2 sighters from each different load as the morning progressed. Ambient temp is 45 degs with a light breeze.
2nd target is for the 10 rnd groups at 100 yds. Barrel was allowed to cool down to the point my hand could hold onto it forward of the gas system. Dry Otis patches were pulled through barrel between changing loads.
Notice the obvious on the 46 gn load. 1 moa max spread with a average of under .5 moa for 10 rnds at 100 yds. Even the poorest group had an average of under 1 moa. Worst spread was 2 moa with the 47 gn load. Whatta Hobby!

[Slowpoke Slim]

setup

[NF1E]

setup

S7 Bipod and a rear bunny bag. Photo shows an Atlas, but the S7 is a bit more stable for load testing. Whatta Hobby!

[Dave Hoback]

Why Berdan primers? Seems from a couple posts this your preferred. Or did it just happen you came across them?

[NF1E]

I just find berdan works well for my .308 rifles. Much more consistent fire that I have had with either Federal 210M or 215M in LR and the primer pockets just hold up nicely.. Now, I have seen some great results with boxer sr primed .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor.

[South Prairie jim]

The second target is a waste of ammunition. First target has plenty of information.

[CFJunkie]

Both targets have plenty of information, but the two targets tend to lead to slightly different conclusions.
I would feel more comfortable using the second target since the statistical sample is larger.

[South Prairie jim]

We shoot incremental charge ladders to identify a window/ node of stability, whereas the point of impact isn’t moving or shifting from string to string. In this example the target could easily be at a further distance but nevertheless on the first target it starts to stablize about 46.0 - shoots pretty well at 46.5 and by 47.0 starts shooting poorly again. In my experience the next step for a long range load would be to explore each side of 46.5 at .1 gr increments to identify how wide the node is and exactly where it breaks out. No need to reshoot all those rounds that do not qualify, save those for seating and bullet hold reviews.

[Fuj']

We shoot incremental charge ladders to identify a window/ node of stability, whereas the point of impact isn’t moving or shifting from string to string. In this example the target could easily be at a further distance but nevertheless on the first target it starts to stablize about 46.0 - shoots pretty well at 46.5 and by 47.0 starts shooting poorly again. In my experience the next step for a long range load would be to explore each side of 46.5 at .1 gr increments to identify how wide the node is and exactly where it breaks out. No need to reshoot all those rounds that do not qualify, save those for seating and bullet hold reviews.

Yes Sir !! I would add that 1/2 gr, of powder is too big of a jump. Generally I'll start with 3/10's gr
to get me near my safe limit. Faster burn rate powders like Varget and R-15, I'll go 1/10th grain on
either side to explore a node. Mid range powders like H4350 and R-16, I'll go 2/10th gr. Anything
above H4831, I go 3/10's.....Another thing to remember is to factor in your seating depth tests. You
may not need to change charge weight, but just adjust your jump or jam.

First test.....

[South Prairie jim]

Agreed
i start a 308 in 2/10 increments and eventually break down the load to 1/10 grain. For example I’ll load in between two charges.
This sight does let me post any pictures, or examples but I think the text may be enough.

reconsidering that Fuji is probably correct for that size cartridge with 3/10 increments.

[charlie b]

For me it also depends on the size of the charge too. If in the 40gn or higher range I would probably start with 3/10. If in the 15gn or less range, maybe 1/10.

Just for grins I usually do a 1/10th gn, 1 rnd each, across a wide range (2gns maybe). Then plot the curve and see if any 'flat' spots show up. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't. Purely a velocity measurement, but, sometimes POI changes are interesting as well.

[NF1E]

Glad to see the interest. The second target was simply to get an idea of where my ladder would be established for that particular bullet. Ended up using 46gn as center and going .5 either side for the ladder. Right now I am working on loads right around the 46.2. This is a work in progress and I really enjoy making an M14 work beyond it normal expectations. This target was shot with one of my M14s prone off a bipod a couple of days ago using Sierra 135 gn varminters which I use for practice and trigger time. Loading Berger 155 gn Hybrid Target bullets now with a load of 42.5 gn of Varget and can usually keep all 10 shots in the X ring on an MR31C. Most bolt rifles and shooters have a difficult time mastering the MR-31C. Whatta Hobby!

[South Prairie jim]

How do you guys up load pictures from a I phone ?

[Dave Hoback]

As a “Basis Member” I believe you can load a certain number of images. Click the icon I circled in the picture from the posting screen. Then choose load from Computer. Your IPhone images will come up. Choose the image you want & upload.
https://i.ibb.co/7JJKnKX/639577-BA-4169-447-B-BA19-6-C71-D20-E0163.png (https://ibb.co/JRRHvHK)

The other option, which I prefer, is using 3rd party hosting. The pictures are bigger & it doesn’t waste extra bandwidth on the site. I use this site. It’s 100% free, you don’t have to sign up or even provide email. Just your pictures become open source. (Anyone can use them) Igs easy to use. Just click the Blue Cloud with arrow then “Photo Library”, choose images from your IPhone & click “Upload”. Then when it reaches 100%, click the image and Copy the BBCode link & post it here in your thread or response. It will be a URL link when you post it, but when you are finished your response & post, it shows the image. The image I posted above is actually using that 3rd party hosting.
https://imgbb.com/

[South Prairie jim]

Thanks Dave
Using the circled I con allows me to choose an image but not insert, i may have to try the 3rd party option.

[NF1E]

What's an I phone? Just joking, I know it's one of them new fangled gadgets kids use these days.

[Dave Hoback]

Thanks Dave
Using the circled I con allows me to choose an image but not insert, i may have to try the 3rd party option.


I’m sorry, Jim. Thought Basic Membership could post like 10 pics or something. But looks like you need at least Bronze Membership. Even so, better to go 3rd party hosting anyway. 3rd party hosting is actually BETTER for the site anyway. It doesn’t use up the Bandwidth like posting directly to the Forum. And again, the pictures are larger. Have you noticed all the pictures I post? Everything is uploaded directly from my IPhone 12 Mini, and hosted by ImgBB. I’m telling you, try it. You’ll like how easy it is. The best thing is no sign up, don’t need to give your name or even use email. Just upload, copy/past & go!

[South Prairie jim]

I’m sorry, Jim. Thought Basic Membership could post like 10 pics or something. But looks like you need at least Bronze Membership. Even so, better to go 3rd party hosting anyway. 3rd party hosting is actually BETTER for the site anyway. It doesn’t use up the Bandwidth like posting directly to the Forum. And again, the pictures are larger. Have you noticed all the pictures I post? Everything is uploaded directly from my IPhone 12 Mini, and hosted by ImgBB. I’m telling you, try it. You’ll like how easy it is. The best thing is no sign up, don’t need to give your name or even use email. Just upload, copy/past & go!

No problem Dave, I’ll check it out and thx for your help.

[NF1E]

Load has been established. 155 gn Berger hybrid target over 44.5 gn of Varget in MEN berdan cases set off with Tula berdan primers. Now it's time for the trigger monkey to work on his part of the equation. Whatta Hobby!

[NF1E]

Target for today. Getting there. Rifle and ammo are capable of the 10-X designation. Trigger monkey needs some work. Whatta Hobby!