New Barrel Time

[charlie b]

For cast bullet shooting knowing the throat is important. The easiest to measure is to use a 'pound cast'. A slug of lead (sometimes a slightly larger dia bullet) is placed in the chamber neck. Then a rod (I use a brass one with taper around it) is used to pound the slug into the throat. Not all the way, just enough to get it into the main rifling. Then use a rod from the muzzle (again, protected from the bore with tape) and tap it back out. Then you have an impression of the throat.

But, bullet OAL is a different thing. The eld type bullets have a long ogive section so they are seated well out if you want to touch the lands. I've had some, like the 155 Hornady ELD, in my .308 that cannot be seated out far enough to touch while the 155 Bergers were just fine with a slight jam. The .223 I could seat the 77gn SMK's just fine but the Hornady 75gn ELD's were too long for the mag. And that was after 4000 rounds.

The CBTO is a decent way to determine where each bullet will touch the lands. Using the dummy case and seat it until the bullet touches, then use the gage to measure the CBTO. It gives a good reference point for your rifle. One thing to keep in mind is the bore on rifles may be different. My bore on the .308 is 0.302". So the CBTO I measure will not be the same as yours.

[astjp2]

Just ordered a new barrel. Decided on Criterion from James at NSS. Came down to price. Just couldn’t pass up their deal. First time I’ve spoken to James. It was interesting, funny at some points. Now look, I understand he doesn’t know me, and as the business, he’s making sure that the customer has everything they need. But I almost wanted to say a couple times in a nice way, “look my friend, I know we haven’t met, but trust me I know what I’m doing.” Of course I wouldn’t do that, LOL! Like I said, it was just kinda funny. He repeated a couple times.. “are you sure it’s a Small Shank?” LOL. Yeees.. I’m sure partner!:rolleyes: And he made a couple comments a bit off the cuff, at one point saying “that seems strange”. Anyway, nice guy. So I ordered a 28” Stainless 260 AI with .160” freebore. 1:7.5” twist.


I came so close to ordering a McGowen, but had an email conversation with someone there the day of, and got a red flag during. I’ve been doing all this long enough to know if you sense something wrong leave it be. Bit of a shame. I really did want to give McGowen a try. But I know the Criterion will perform, so I’m happy.

Now the 12-20 week wait for the barrel, LOL! Good thing I’m patient.
I want to do something similar but in .264 wm, I was thinking VLD’s and a 1:7.5 twist. What are your thoughts Dave?

[Dave Hoback]

I want to do something similar but in .264 wm, I was thinking VLD’s and a 1:7.5 twist. What are your thoughts Dave?


Absolutely! The 264WinMag is another prime example of when I have said there ain’t nothin’ new under the sun. The 6.5PRC isn’t some ground breaking NEW cartridge. The 264WM can handle the heaviest & longest 6.5’s available. And actually take advantage of the high weight for caliber & super high BC of the 150gr+ pills now. (Unlike pretending they work in a Creedmoor case, meandering along at 2400fps??) No, the 264WM will actually send them with adequate velocity. Although, if I was building one, I look to a bit more Freebore. Personally though, I’m not a Magnum/Small caliber guy. But then, I’m not a Magnum LARGE caliber kinda guy either, LOL! However, I think your idea is fantastic if you have the interest. I HATE that the market is trying to bully us into buying certain calibers… the industry would have been super happy with me just getting a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel… (I’m sure James would have happy as well, had I simply ordered one of the 6.5CM’s he has on shelf;)) But the industry would be happy if I started believing the nonsense like so many others are now. For instance, how a guy tests & claims a load of 142gr SMK over 41.8gr (just over MAX load), of H4350 was good for 2660fps in a 27” barrel at one testing, but fast forward to 2019, he tests the same 142gr SMK pill over just 41.5gr of the same H4350 this time, (max load), and in a 26” barrel this go. And low & behold…. he NOW claims it managed to do 2770fps! Explain that one! Oh… and you can bet someone will try!

Anyway… don’t let the industry or FORUMS make your decision for you. Don’t ever feel you must do what everyone else does. Why? So you to can grab FACTORY ammo off the shelf (which is ALL loaded slower than they’re saying because, oh yeah! PHYSICS!) Do your own research, and go with what you have the interest in.

This is assuming of course, you have a firm understanding of & do reload your own ammunition. Because obviously, if you must rely on off the shelf ammunition, then it’s just smart to stick to what’s popular. Even if you do get accused of having a Man BUN! LOL! :tea:

[wbm]

_.

[Slowpoke Slim]

I'm shooting 139 gr Lapua Scenars and 140 gr Berger VLD's from my 6.5x284. It has a 1:8 twist McGowen barrel on it, and I haven't had any issues with bullets stabilizing.

I started off shooting 142 gr Sierra matchkings, but kept getting single flyers in each group. From talking to a guy at Bruno's Shooters Supply ( I used to live near there), he suggested I switch to the Scenars. My lone flyer issue went away.

Moral of the story, I don't know what bullet you want to shoot, but you may not need that 1:7.5 twist.

[Dave Hoback]

Oh Good grief! You guys completely missed my point! :rolleyes:

It has nothing to do reaching certain speeds.. And even less to do with barrel twist!

Each is free to take from any of this whatever he may. God bless

[Slowpoke Slim]

Oh Good grief! You guys completely missed my point! :rolleyes:

It has nothing to do reaching certain speeds.. And even less to do with barrel twist!

But no matter.. I’m not speaking to those with no ears to listen. http://www.savageshooters.com/blob:https://www.savageshooters.com/5d4f80ec-94fc-4732-b848-b9466269bfdf Each is free to take from any of this whatever he may. God bless

If that was directed towards me?

I was replying to astjp2 (http://www.savageshooters.com/member.php?57207-astjp2)'s comment about barrel twist. Nothing to do with your post at all.

I'm sorry for upsetting you.

I will refrain from contributing further.

[Dave Hoback]

No, sorry Slim. Not meant at you.. and not meant as a rebuke at all. The barrel twist comment was simply an afterthought. Also, no one upset me. I’m just talking like I would in a conversation. Not upset at anything. So please don’t stop replying on my account :tea: I did delete the “ears to listen comment.” I was trying to make a joke, but it didn’t work. Sorry it sounded like I was annoyed. Never was & all is well.

“Text” is the DEVIL in regards to misidentification of a person’s inflection, Ya know? LOL!

[charlie b]

That's why I don't even send many posts that I compose. No matter how I word it, it doesn't come across well.

[astjp2]

Absolutely! The 264WinMag is another prime example of when I have said there ain’t nothin’ new under the sun. The 6.5PRC isn’t some ground breaking NEW cartridge. The 264WM can handle the heaviest & longest 6.5’s available. And actually take advantage of the high weight for caliber & super high BC of the 150gr+ pills now. (Unlike pretending they work in a Creedmoor case, meandering along at 2400fps??) No, the 264WM will actually send them with adequate velocity. Although, if I was building one, I look to a bit more Freebore. Personally though, I’m not a Magnum/Small caliber guy. But then, I’m not a Magnum LARGE caliber kinda guy either, LOL! However, I think your idea is fantastic if you have the interest. I HATE that the market is trying to bully us into buying certain calibers… the industry would have been super happy with me just getting a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel… (I’m sure James would have happy as well, had I simply ordered one of the 6.5CM’s he has on shelf;)) But the industry would be happy if I started believing the nonsense like so many others are now. For instance, how a guy tests & claims a load of 142gr SMK over 41.8gr (just over MAX load), of H4350 was good for 2660fps in a 27” barrel at one testing, but fast forward to 2019, he tests the same 142gr SMK pill over just 41.5gr of the same H4350 this time, (max load), and in a 26” barrel this go. And low & behold…. he NOW claims it managed to do 2770fps! Explain that one! Oh… and you can bet someone will try!

Anyway… don’t let the industry or FORUMS make your decision for you. Don’t ever feel you must do what everyone else does. Why? So you to can grab FACTORY ammo off the shelf (which is ALL loaded slower than they’re saying because, oh yeah! PHYSICS!) Do your own research, and go with what you have the interest in.

This is assuming of course, you have a firm understanding of & do reload your own ammunition. Because obviously, if you must rely on off the shelf ammunition, then it’s just smart to stick to what’s popular. Even if you do get accused of having a Man BUN! LOL! :tea:
Dave, we should chat so I can get an idea on extending the freebore before I order a barrel. I agree with your comments bot I am not 100% certain on twist. Tim

[Dave Hoback]

If you’re not certain, go 1:8.

[astjp2]

Ok, that’s easy

[Dave Hoback]

Today marks Week #4 on barrel lead time. Good thing I still have things to get done before I swap it out. I still need to machine the new Recoil Lug. I’m making one from 6AL4V Titanium, which will be the first one I’ve ever seen. Can’t even find a Ti Recoil Lug for sale aside for the ones made for the Tikka T3. But nothing for Savage Model 110 or Rem. Model 700. I got the Ti plate which is like 8mm/5/16”. I wanted to make one about that thickness, unfortunately I found out the barrel isn’t threaded deep enough, and will only accept 1/4” max thickness. Which is fine. I’m going to do another thread with pics when I make it, so this is just fyi, but one great thing is my Chassis is set up to allow any size Recoil Lug. I mean ANY! The recess for the lug is widened beyond the Action’s 1.305” diameter, and it’s under a tube handguard so it’s not even seen. I can make the Lug like a 1.5”L X 1.75”W rectangle if I want, LOL! J/K Of course I’m going to shape it accordingly. One thing, I’m trying to decide how I want to attach it to the Magnetic Chuck for my Surface Grinder Attachment. Wondering if I should just dab some crazy glue each cut/test, or should I make a steel holding jig for the Titanium part? Decisions, decisions.

[charlie b]

Have seen stuff get shot from a surface grinder. The stainless I used was not quite magnetic enough :) I'd make a stop plate from plain steel. Sides would be optional. Best would be to have a full jig of steel. Maybe countersink a screw that will go up into a tapped hole in the titanium part. Still, a 'stop lip' would be a good safety item.

[Dave Hoback]

I have a stop that is removable from the Mag Chuck Charlie. That was part of the design when I built it. But I can’t just lay the Ti part flat on the Chuck against the stop. It either needs glued down, or I’ll need to make a jig that acts as a mini “Vice”, which is likely what I’ll do.

This isn’t a giant floor mount Surface Grinder. It’s an SGA… (Surface Grinder Attachment). They are extremely popular with Knifemakers.. (Like me, LOL!) The design was first made by a Knifemaker/machinist named Travis Wuertz. He is a genius! And was actually featured on an episode of that show “Forged in Fire” on the History channel. He sells his design, the SGA-1 for like $2000. Well, some many years ago when I started my Knifemaking I couldn’t afford that, but I was at that point getting pretty heavy into machining/fabrication, along with the Knifemaking. So from his pictures & videos online PLUS my pretty incredible “search” ability, I was able to find all the special parts used in his design. And then from those pics/vids I was able to recreate his design almost exactly, and at a fraction of the price. Cost me about $250 back then. So I made a thread on a very popular Knife Making Forum for fellow DIY’ers to follow, and the rest is as they say.. History. I got a little “On-Line” recognition for about 12 minutes, LOL! Ya know, I was “That guy who figured it out” kinda thing. But then of course, several guys… (Money Greedy Douchers, as I call them), started making and selling them which I was completely against! Because Travis’ is still the best, just not everyone can just pony up $2K. And ehh, obviously can’t really patent a tool like that I guess. Same thing goes for my 2x72 belt grinder. They cost at least $2500 for a really nicely equipped unit with a powerful motor & using a Variable Frequency Drive. So instead, I built mine because that’s what I do. And yes… I have pics of building them & videos using them. LOL

[charlie b]

That was what I figured. Which is why I mentioned the steel holding plate and a screw into the Ti part. A screw hole in a recoil lug won't hurt anything and would allow you to 'clamp' it to the steel fixture. Or, just make the Ti part a little larger and put the screw hole in the area you will cut off later.

[Dave Hoback]

Well, it’s nary a new dealing for me. I’ve surfaced countless blades & other metal objects, and never had one remove itself from the chuck. The Magnets used are are N52 Neodymium bars. Each magnet strip is 10mmX60mm & 5mm thick and can hold like 40lbs each. The chuck uses 11 of these magnets! Pulling anything from the chuck is impossible in a straight pull. Objects must be slide off to break the tension. I decided to make a jig. I started today, machined a steel flat roughly square at about 1.710”x 1.690”. Also machined two 1/4” thick aluminum bars to serve as uprights on either side. These will be drilled & screwed to either side of the 1.710” length via 4mm cap screws. The steel I used is just over 1/4”, so 4mm threaded holes will work nicely. Would have rather used 3mm, but I happen to have several 4mm Allen cap screws, so… meh.

[charlie b]

That's the problem, isn't it. Sliding of the workpiece. Which is what the grinding wheel/belt is trying to do to it.

Sounds like you have it under control.