Ok, sick of this.

[Dave Hoback]

So here’s the scoop. I spent about 25 minutes on the phone with Savage the other day. I gave the nice young lady several part numbers (trigger components), or which I’m just concerned with the Sear. Explained my situation, that I’m a hobby builder/gunsmith, but not an FFL. She put me on hold and spoke to someone, and the reply was the same. I then asked if I could speak to her supervisor to explain the situation. I spoke to a Nick and went through the same speak. Explained to him I’m not going to send them an Action to install trigger components…that I would gladly sign any release they needed, etc. He told me although it used to be like that in the past, their new system must have an FFL # to process certain parts; that it was a lockout, he explained. So we are hosed on that.

I decided I’m just going to make my own Sear/Bolt release. They are insanely simple components. Look at one, and imagine it flat. Just need to cut/shape the pattern from steel, drill the holes & fold to shape. Heat treat/temper & I use another tool I made to stone the proper angle of the release surface. I have some .080” 4130 Alloy sheet I think will work nicely. I can through harden instead of case hardening, so won’t need to worry about it. I am very grateful to have a knowledge of metallurgy.

Any thoughts?

This is the one I’m making.
https://i.ibb.co/JyY38N0/038-B0-D6-B-F153-40-B5-A1-B3-7-D27-D066-D389.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[jkv45]

I bought a new Henry .22 lever-action rifle the other day, and the magazine tube didn't slide in and out of the rifle smoothly, like it had a slight bend.

I called Henry, gave the part number for the outer tube (not the assembly) and was told they cannot send that part out, the entire rifle needs to be returned to replace it.

What? Really? I said I would understand if it were a serialized part -but it's just a brass tube.

Not sure if they were just jerking me around or what.

[charlie b]

Unfortunately these days I understand the mfg problem. There are too many "ignorant" folks out there and too many ways to screw up a gun. Millions of anti-gun org lawyers out there just waiting on something to happen.

I am surprised that gunsmiths do not have special certification from the mfgs.

[bsekf]

OK Dave, you have addressed the weak point in the Savage platform. Are you going to include shims and oversized pins to help take the slop out? Like the idea of the whole thing being hardened. How much????

[Tparrish]

So here’s the scoop. I spent about 25 minutes on the phone with Savage the other day. I gave the nice young lady several part numbers (trigger components), or which I’m just concerned with the Sear. Explained my situation, that I’m a hobby builder/gunsmith, but not an FFL. She put me on hold and spoke to someone, and the reply was the same. I then asked if I could speak to her supervisor to explain the situation. I spoke to a Nick and went through the same speak. Explained to him I’m not going to send them an Action to install trigger components…that I would gladly sign any release they needed, etc. He told me although it used to be like that in the past, their new system must have an FFL # to process certain parts; that it was a lockout, he explained. So we are hosed on that.

I decided I’m just going to make my own Sear/Bolt release. They are insanely simple components. Look at one, and imagine it flat. Just need to cut/shape the pattern from steel, drill the holes & fold to shape. Heat treat/temper & I use another tool I made to stone the proper angle of the release surface. I have some .080” 4130 Alloy sheet I think will work nicely. I can through harden instead of case hardening, so won’t need to worry about it. I am very grateful to have a knowledge of metallurgy.

Any thoughts?

This is the one I’m making.
https://i.ibb.co/JyY38N0/038-B0-D6-B-F153-40-B5-A1-B3-7-D27-D066-D389.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

Go for it Mr Dave, interesting project. Put me on the I want one list.
Tom

[GrenGuy]

Unfortunately these days I understand the mfg problem. There are too many "ignorant" folks out there and too many ways to screw up a gun. Millions of anti-gun org lawyers out there just waiting on something to happen.

I am surprised that gunsmiths do not have special certification from the mfgs.

YES...Look what happened to Remington because of what “STUPID” people did to their rifles.

[Dave Hoback]

OK Dave, you have addressed the weak point in the Savage platform. Are you going to include shims and oversized pins to help take the slop out? Like the idea of the whole thing being hardened. How much????


Well, I doubt I’ll be making them to sell. We’ll see how much time it takes me. If I end up making several I don’t need, I’d likely give them away.

I make Titanium shims now for taking out the slop. If you want a pair of those just let me know & I’ll send you some. I don’t charge.

[Turkeytider]

At the risk of stating the obvious, this is all wrapped around potential litigation. It may well be that Savage and other firearms manufacturers would like nothing better than to provide parts to their customers.

[Dave Hoback]

Oh I doubt they give a hoot about it! But I understand your point…and agree! The set off to all this is this disgusting, SUE-happy world! Not helping is the “puss-ification” of American men! Half the population is on board with young boys cutting off their parts and PRETENDING to be girls after all! It’s THESE same people who are blaming everyone but themselves. “Oh look! Scolding HOT coffee… but there’s no warning on the cup! So it’s THEIR fault I spilled HOT coffee on myself while I was driving & it burned me! I’ll sue them,YAY!”

I bet some ignorant, BUBBA gun SMIFFS likely purchased a target Accutrigger for their Model 10 Tacti-Kewl, and ended up putting a new decorative hole in their ceiling! So they SUED Savage. And even though Savage made them sign a release, it’s likely some Libera-Leftist Judge & Jury found against Savage regardless… because “guns are bad, mm-kay!”, and likely found in favor of the dummy! So Savage turned it off. No more, they said! Only FFL holders can purchase certain parts now because they are less likely to sue and much less likely to win in that situation.

Just more of our Broken Earth at work!

[Dave Hoback]

I am going to make some Titanium Sear Pins as well. Fit perfectly to the Action through holes, and the Sear & spacers will be drilled accordingly.

[Shooter0302]

I believe it was Shakespeare that wrote "Kill all the lawyers" , if not that then neuter them , lawyers and their larvae usually turn into politicization's.

[gkainz]

Everybody hates the lawyers… until you need one.
Sadly, when you need one, it’s probably to protect yourself from another lawyer.

[bsekf]

Dave, sent you an e-mail. Bill

[Robinhood]

1075 or 1095 is probably the most suitable to make it out of. I am going to have the PMI guy at the J O B check one to be certain of what the manufacture uses. I am still waiting on you to get some .200" titanium plate,possibly thinner, and have a precision water-jet or laser cut some recoil lugs.

[Dave Hoback]

Well, my choice would be 4140. 1075 & 1095 are both good knife steels. They both have the best characteristics above 60hrc, which is WAAY to hard for firearm trigger, bolt, barrel, receiver parts. 1060 would be an OK choice as it’s more like a spring steel, often used for choppers & swords. And S7 works decent also. However, it’s virtually impossible to find in sheet. So it would need to be forged from a bar. Not what I do. But I already have the 4130 in the perfect size sheet. (.080”). I doubt I’ll even need to use my Surface Grinder.

Firearms components are heat treated/tempered at quite low hardness; typically in the 40’s, and really never see even 50hrc. A small component, like the Sear, being it doesn’t suffer much impact, will still likely perform well in the 50hrc range. Going higher hardness makes high impact/fatigue parts far too brittle. A 1095 Sear at 60hrc would absolutely break in half or chip. And tempered to the low range for toughness makes for horrible wear, corrosion resistance, etc. Alloy steel is the best option for firearms components, which is why every manufacturer uses them. (And before anyone starts talking about. Stainless steel… 416R SS is by nature, a High Alloy steel.;)) This is why I spent years studying Metallurgy before I even made my first knife blade, or steel/Aluminum part. Knowing the hardness a specific should be for a certain task, but also knowing the characteristics steels have, as they can be vastly different at different temper ranges.

.200” Ti? I prefer Recoil Lugs at least .250” thick, but was thinking about 6mm Ti. That’s .236” thick. I really want to make some in 8mm (.314”) Titanium. Can source some 6AL4V Ti relatively affordable. No Water Jet Cutting or CNC for me.. I have to do it all manually.

Sorry I’m rambling on guys… I love this stuff. I can literally talk for hours about Steel, Aluminum, Alloy compositions & Composites.

[Robinhood]

Keep rambling. I no longer have a memeory so it is good to relive these topics. I do bet if you could find someone to waterjet(maybe plasma) some lugs I bet you could get 20 plus out of a small sheet, sell the ones you don't need and you are in for relatively cheep. Might even have a side income. For a standard Savage/Remington recoil lug, thickness isn't too critical due to the strength.

Tempering

Typical hardnesses of 1095 carbon steel after tempering for 2 hours at different temperatures


Grade
Temperature, °C (°F)
Rockwell hardness, HRC
Heat treatment


1095 high carbon steel, carbon content: 0.95%
205 (400)
58 HRC
Normalized at 885 °C (1625 °F), water quenched from 800-815 °C (1475-1550 °F); average dew point, 7 °C (45 °F)


260 (500)
57 HRC


315 (600)
52 HRC


370 (700)
47 HRC


425 (800)
43 HRC


480 (900)
42 HRC


540 (1000)
41 HRC


595 (1100)
40 HRC


650 (1200)
33 HRC

[Dave Hoback]

Thanks Robin. I am very familiar with 1095. It & O1 were the first steels I worked with. That particular recipe you posted is interesting, not sure where you sourced it. But it’s an extremely aggressive temp to Austenitize at. Heating to that high will induce large carbides growth in the grain structure, while quenching in water from 1625f and the steel will warp, & most likely crack. At the very least I would rather use brine to quench, and even that, Oil is much more forgiving. The Tempering numbers aren’t quite correct either. I would do a 1475-1500F fast quench in oil, and get about 65HR straight from. Followed by back to back 2-hour tempers at 400f. End up with right about 62/64HRC & good grain structure.

Again, the simple Carbon steels work fine, but Alloy steel is superior. Especially the modern CPM steels.


I’m sure I could have a bunch of Lugs either Water/Plasma/Laser cut, and sell a bunch, sure. I just have no interest in making my hobby, some money scheme. Then there l’s the startup cost, paperwork, job tracking, yadda-yadda-yadda! Not what I want to do with the limited time I get. And it’s only getting worse. Seems like pain is taking more & more time from me every month. I haven’t even made a single knife in a year now. Just a couple years ago I still able to do knives & Gun projects simultaneously.